Vase artists models

[PMBardunias]

I often wonder how many elements we see on vases were in contemporary use at the time the vase was done and how many were simply seen in temples or heirlooms. I was looking at the fragment on an image below and struck my the fact that we see the lacing holes in the bronze thigh piece exactly as we would on an artifact in a museum today. If this had been a contemporary piece of armor shouldn't there be an overlapping lip of leather lining/edging and lacings in these holes?

[Praefectusclassis]

There's another option - the reason I didn't get an A+ on my Greek warfare reading list oral exam, actually, because I forgot: how many artists were simply copying older designs?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Heh! Nice find,but as you know,in most helmets that today have holes the leather wasn't turning on the outside of the helmet,nor was it sewn,but it was secured by rivets. Some of the riveted examples do have traces of the lining turning on the outside,but comparatively very few. Not to mention the other possibility,that the holes/rivets were just a decorative aspect,like in later illyrian helmets.
The vase is pretty early,a time where helmets and greaves were often still with holes and rivets.
I will agree in your probable objection that greaves never seem to have had rivets like the helmets,but on the other hand we have so few examples of thigh guards...
Khaire
Giannis

[PMBardunias]

how many artists were simply copying older designs?

Hey Jasper, that would be good to know, moreso if the model was not even greek art! I would love to read a systematic examination of how the various artistic conventions, like orientalism and archaic subject matter, and limitations, such as problems with perspective, influence the way in which artists were forced to portray their subjects. It would make a great AW article if you can find someone qualified to write it, though I cannot even suggest anyone with that skill set.

most helmets that today have holes the leather wasn't turning on the outside of the helmet,nor was it sewn,but it was secured by rivets.

From what I have read in many of the riveted ones the lining would have been turned around the outside, covering the edge of the metal. But as you say there is a great variation over time with big rivets giving way to many small rivets, probably used with glue, and then simply decorative or just incised rivet patterns. So yea, this could just be decoration if the lining were glued in.

[PMBardunias]

Here's another odd one- upper arm guards on both arms? Have left arm guards ever been found?