Julian\'s heavy cavalry at Strasbourg; cowardice or common-se

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Hi all.

Back after eons. Reviving my interests starting with the 4th Century. Looking at Strasbourg (357 AD).

Chnodomar's light cavalry had infantry hidden amongst them. Julian's heavy cavalry ploughs into them. Infantry trap works. Roman cavalry beats cowardly retreat and refuses to rejoin battle.

Anyone got thoughts as to whether pulling out might have been a sensible call that never got acknowledged as such?

Cheers

Howard/SPC

[Vindex]

Will have to go and re-read the sources, but the fact that the pulling out cavalry were heavy and they were surrounded by light cavalry and foot seems like a sensible tactical withdrawl to me...

[Robert Vermaat]

Maybe both.

Some might have been cowards, but to halt a cavalry unit that is on the run is hard (panic always spreads easily), so I expect that those who weren't fleeing because of the enemy, fled to remain with their unit - common sense. In the end, Julian (or one of his officers) managed to halt the retreat, so I think they weren't fleeing headlong anyway.

If the move was common sense, they would have regrouped behind the reserves. They didn't, so I'd say it was not only common sense.

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Thanks all thus far.

Robert's point is the one that causes me to frown. Why didn't they regroup? This is what gets me. The Romans don't seem to have had the c-&-c problems the germanics had.

Julian's position must have been reasonably visible on the field. (Though, maybe battlefield communications weren't all they might have been). Regrouping shouldn't have been an insurmountable problem.

Ammianus seems to have the most say on this episode. He is pro-Julian and perhaps understandably since Julian seems to have been being shafted by Constantius along the line.

But I also get the feeling Julian himself was a bit paranoid. I'm wondering whether Julian's opinions of the heavy cavalry and his actions thereafter stemmed from maybe a suspicion the retreat had been just a bit too quick.

Cheers

Howard/SPC

[Virilis]

I think we are maybe overinterpreting the case a bit, considering the sparse hard evidence we have. There are so many variables concerning a cavalry charge that almost anything can happen & get out of the hands quite incontrollably (for example the wounding of the cavalry commander in a bad moment)...

[Robert Vermaat]

Yes, we must be cautious with the exact way of events. For instance, like I said, I have some doubts that Julian himself stopped the flight. But the fact that he punished them afterwards tells us that their was a flight.

On the other hand, how would a cavalry unit be trained? If there was a panic, would the men flee until it got dark? Or would they act more individually, looking for a reserve unit to gather and regroup, to help their comrades? In this event, the rest of the Roman line seems to have been in good shape, so there would have been no reason for the cavalry to do a runner.

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Lots of food for further thought here I think. Thanks, guys, for the responses. They reinforce my suspicions that there was more to this incident than what has been told.

A further question for you Europeans, especially of an archaeological bent. Has much archaeology been done on the Strasbourg battle site? I've often wondered, from watching TV ("Battlefield Detective" and the like), whether antique battlefields yield all that much. I imagine the victors and/or the locals would pretty much have "salvaged" such sites comprehensively soon after the event. Bodies might have been disturbed after falling for all sorts of reasons. Do many of the antique battle sites, for instance, have mass-burial/burning sites nearby?

My interest here is, having retired from teaching, I'm trying to return to university to study archaeology and Classics.

Cheers

Howard/SPC

[Zenobia of Palmyra]

This was the unit of cavalry that was forced to wear women's clothing after battle, wasn't it? :mrgreen:

[Aulus Perrinius]

One that doesn't make much sense is the part where the Cataphract's Commander fell on his horses neck. :o

According to the text the horse collapsed because of the weight. It seems to me this is a mistranslation and/or a misinterpertation. If the guys armour was that heavy he wouldn't have taken a horse that would collapse the moment he leaned in one direction. Not to mention that horse wouldn't been able to manage anything faster than a slow walk.

[Sardaukar]

It's very difficult to stop group of horses following each other..this did cause several inadvertent cavalry charges in Napoleonic wars etc...I think in one instance it happened twice in same battle to same unit. If I recall right, I read about this in footnotes of Goldsworthy's Roman Army at War. I think he wrote that as one possible reason for defeat of Pompeian cavalry in Pharsalus.