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SUMERIAN, EGYPTIAN, HITTITE groups??
#16
Anybody know the dimensions of the icemans ax?I just learned to cast copper and,now I have to make a replica just because I can. <p></p><i></i>
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#17
Ave, Dave!<br>
Send me your mailing address at [email protected] , and I'll mail you a couple photocopies from Konrad Spindler's book, "The Man in the Ice". Drawings and cross-sections of the axehead. I might even have you make one for me! (But I should try it myself someday...)<br>
<br>
By the way, I listed you on the Legio XX Suppliers page on account of the nice scutum boss that you made for Richard, hope that's all right. Check the entry and let me know if you want anything added or changed.<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Matthew/Quintus/Oetzi<br>
<br>
PS: Ground more than a pound of bronze off my sword this weekend! Feels much better, but still hefty. Also wove a round wicker base for a shield, Sea People style. <p></p><i></i>
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#18
Man,nobody ever gets me anything cool like a bronze sword for my birthday(yes I do want cheese with my whine.)I'm glad you and Richard thought the boss turned out nice I know it's a dumb thing to say to a satisfied customer but,I'm unhappy with it because it was a rush job so I could get it to him before Roman Days.I think I'm going to also try making a bronze age helmet one of those made of two halves riveted down the middle can't remember the book I saw it in Think it was something by Connolly. <p></p><i></i>
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#19
Dear Friends,<br>
<br>
I just signed up to Roman Army. I collect ancient swords and other weapons from Bronze and Iron Age Europe, the Near East, South Asia, China and SE Asia.<br>
<br>
I have networks of friends who share my interests and we share information on the identification, authentication, documentation and valuation of ancient weapons offered on eBay auctions.<br>
<br>
My library matches my interests and I belong to several Yahoo discussion sites that may be of interest to some of you.<br>
<br>
I would be happy to add anyone interested in Ancient History and weapons to my mailing lists.<br>
<br>
Best Regards, John Piscopo<br>
JohnPiscopoSwords.com<br>
groups.yahoo.com/group/ancientweapons<br>
groups.yahoo.com/group/ancientartifacts<br>
groups:yahoo.com/group/ancient_thailand<br>
groups.yahoo.com/group/Dong_Son<br>
Sword Forum<br>
PO Box 137<br>
Western Springs, IL 60558<br>
(70EM 246-7111 <p></p><i></i>
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#20
Ave, Joe!<br>
Welcome to the RAT board! I've been eating up your posts to the Sword Forum. Hopefully I'll get around to slapping a hilt on my bronze sword eventually and get my Bronze Age page squared away.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to seeing more good stuff from you here,<br>
<br>
Vale,<br>
Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX <p></p><i></i>
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#21
Was the iceman 'murdered'? This silly stuff can only come from a newspaper. His most probable cause of death, apart from the cold of course, was bloodloss from an arrowhead. Any silly theories about the cause are of course purely speculation. Maybe he was in a war, mybe he was just cleaning his bow when the thing went off.. M There outta be laws against such dangerous weapons in the house!<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
'Cives Francorum, Miles Romanorum' <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#22
Talking about Sumerians, Hittites, etc., but also about Caucasian Pharaohs, made me wondering if there are any black members of groups.<br>
<br>
I mean, all talk of supremacy @#%$ aside, of course there were black African regular soldiers in the Roman army. Let's face it, most reconstructions today show North European guys, but as we know, the common policy of the Roman army was to draw locals into the ranks. For a British unit this would have meant very white guys, but for a Syrian or Egyptian unit this would have meant an altogether different thing. Angus McBride did a very interesting plate in the Osprey series, Romano-Byzantine Armies, where he draws a Syrian miles with a Late Roman helmet, very odd-looking but nonetheless logical.<br>
<br>
My attention was drawn to this when an agency hired a guy from Surinam descent (for those wondering, Surinam was a Dutch colony close to Venezuela) to work in the Roman tavern, and it was a bit of an eye-opener to me. Of course there were blacks in Roman society, as slaves but also as citizens, so why not as soldiers? I know of a North African unit with camels that came to grief in the Alps, no question they would have looked different from the locals!<br>
<br>
So, anyone? I guess that for someone with African roots, joining Roman re-enactment group would not be exacltly tradtional, but I'm still wondering.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
'Cives Francorum, Miles Romanorum' <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#23
Robert, at least one Roman group has had black legionaries and I believe you can see some in my book. In 20 years of doing this, I have probably had at least 50 blacks in Roman kit with our group. I believe their presence is perfectly authetnic, though I try to put them in specialty units such as Auxiliary archers. LEG XIIII draws the bulk of its members from active duty American combat arms soldiers from the base where I work so we can have a wide mix of racial types, just as the original Roman Army. It is quite a different perspective to have a Roman group whose members are more oriented towards behaving like soldiers and consider the Roman gear they are issued as just "war gear" to fight in, rather than button-counting wimps who do virtually nothing at events but stand around like mannequins admiring each others neat doo-dads and endlessly debating how authentic the hinges are on their lorica segmentatas are. And the irony is, the real soldiers are usually far more authetnic too. Not only in athletic build, but they are content to wear the gear they are issued, which is authetnic, typical legionary stuff as opposed to the typical button counter/mannequin groups where everyone has the fanciest gear they can get, thereby creating a very distorted view of the true "look" of the Roman Army.<br>
<br>
Oh back to the original subject of this thread, I like the bronze age too, and as soon as I can get Deepeeka to start using real bronze instead of just brass, a whole lot of exciting "early" stuff will be in the works.<br>
<br>
Dan. <p></p><i></i>
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#24
Thanks, Dan.<br>
<br>
After a week I began to think this subject was avoided on purpose! M Thanks for the info.<br>
Although the 'mannequin vs. warriors' discussion may be one that could (and has?) dwarfed the intensity of the 'red vs. white' debate, I tend to agree with you that real soldiers re-enact ancient soldiers in a more authentic way, or at least potentially so.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
'Cives Francorum, Miles Romanorum' <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#25
>>>when I was in Holland I saw a Dutch newspaper article which showed that the iceman was murdered.<<<<<br>
<br>
Poor chap. Now who is goin to bring us the frozen peas and carrots?<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
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#26
I saw the latest pictures from Albano. That cornicus beside you looks very authentic!<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Robert<br>
<br>
'Cives Francorum, Miles Romanorum'<br>
www.fectio.org.uk/<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#27
Well, I agree that trained and skilled soldiers would perform better the role of Roman soldiers, people used to live under rough discipline... but I think that everyone do whatever they CAN do, I mean, do I have to be a marine to be able to reenact in a Roman reenactment group? Are we civilians less worthy to perform or study how life was in the Roman army?<br>
<br>
I am strongly passionate on the history of Roman army and whenever I reenact with my group, I try to "live" it and perfrom as good as I can, and so do all of my "comrades" and I'm sure that so do all of the reenactors, whatever they are "real" soldiers or "poor" and sometimes "fat" civilians!<br>
<br>
Its not fair to despise those who reenact worst than "others", but to aim them to improve (if they have enough money to spend on this and have to pay their own).<br>
<br>
VALE<br>
<br>
Ivan Perelló<br>
LEGIO VII GEMINA www.projectephoenix.uni.cc <p></p><i></i>
[Image: 120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png] [Image: Estalada.gif]
Ivan Perelló
[size=150:iu1l6t4o]Credo in Spatham, Corvus sum bellorum[/size]
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#28
Ivan,<br>
I wouldn't say the real soldiers are the only people who make good reenactors... BUT they are a good source of people willing to do REAL Roman reenactment including combat simulation. This is sometimes a rare commodity, for many Roman groups composed primarily of civilians are purely "costumed display teams". After doing this for over 20 years, I have come into contact with many groups, and all roughly fall into two distinct types represented by the two earliest groups, our LEG XIIII and the Ermine Street Guard. Imitators of "the Guard" are prevalent in those Northern European areas which has had the most direct contact with them. It is mostly in this region where you have the display team, rather than reenactment mentality. Therefore, I was quite delighted when meeting LEG XXX in Albano, which had never been "contaminated" by the "display team only" mentality, and were quite willing to engage in simulated combat, which was thoroughly appreciated by the spectators. Perhaps it was no coincidence that there were a number of real Italian military people in the group, but I believe the main reason this group "fought" and marched hard was because they were never influenced by other groups, paticularly those of the display team/"animated museum mannequin mentality. It is not only the willingness to fight, but the willingness to wear full armor all day, march in long parades, sleep on the ground in tents, etc. Many groups refuse to do any of these things. One recent example at Trier, a planned parade through the City was delayed by over an hour because all of the other groups besides ours insisted on be bussed to the starting point, not more than a half mile from camp. Our real soldiers marched there without complaint.<br>
<br>
Of course there are drawbacks to the real soldiers too. Most have very little knowledge about the Roman army, so cannot be of much help answering the more technical questions poised by visitors, especially so when in languages other than English.. I must supply them with equipment as well, whereas civilian reenactors usually have their own kit. I like a happy medium of both good soldiers who can march and fight, and bilingual, knowledgable civilians to answer questions, providing they at least try to behave like real soldiers and go along with the program. If they do, we cut them some slack.<br>
<br>
No, you don't have to be a real soldier or marine to be a good Roman reenactor, but it helps. Anyone who donns the costume of a Roman soldier should respect those past soldiers enough to make a reasonable attempt to do more than just stand around and look like them.<br>
<br>
As a side note, at multi-period events I have attended in France sponsored by the French Army, it is forbidden for civilian reenactors to masquerade as real French officers. I think it is a great rule. It irratates me at U.S. events here in Germany to see some european, usually fat boy, adolescent soldier wannabe run around dressed as an American officer or NCO and actually get saluted by real soldiers who didn't realize the fraud. It irritates me almost as much to see useless, lazy people "pretending" to represent soldiers of the greatest (Roman) army in history by merely donning the costume and be totally unwilling to fight, march or sleep on the ground. And old age is not a factor. I was honored to reenact many years with Jack Sibley, an octogenarian who served in the pre WWII Khyber pass, wounded at Dunkirk and came back for Normandy. He willingly endured every hardship of "hardcore" reenacting in a variety or periods (including Roman) much better than some men 1/5 his age. <br>
<br>
Dan. <p></p><i></i>
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#29
Well Dan,<br>
I appreciate a lot your fast answer, and in fact, your comprehension and patience answering to a fussy rookie... I realy mean it, and I understand your purist (but not radical) point of view... it also happens to me when some "odd" folks in my groupe don't respect (as you say) wearing and doing the role of the ancient legionarii... I understand that irritation, believe me, I had it too.<br>
<br>
My group is begining, and I hope we could melt both spirits, one: the real reenactor, and the other: the knowledge of an historian or an archeologist.<br>
<br>
Thank you very much!<br>
<br>
Ivan Perelló<br>
LEGIO VII GEMINA www.projectephoenix.uni.cc<br>
<br>
P.S. Don't you have a web site of your group? <p></p><i></i>
[Image: 120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png] [Image: Estalada.gif]
Ivan Perelló
[size=150:iu1l6t4o]Credo in Spatham, Corvus sum bellorum[/size]
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#30
Dan,<br>
I forgot to ask, after reading your posts, what oppinion do you have, then, about groups as the Ermine Street Guard, The Colchester Roman Society or the LEGIO XIIII GMV from England?<br>
<br>
Ivan Perelló<br>
LEGIO VII GEMINA www.projectephoenix.uni.cc <p></p><i></i>
[Image: 120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png] [Image: Estalada.gif]
Ivan Perelló
[size=150:iu1l6t4o]Credo in Spatham, Corvus sum bellorum[/size]
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