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Slinger
#46
Quote:I believe I understand what you mean about the hems, but I do not know if I would want to do that for the entire length or just the arm holes.

Just the armholes, assuming the neckhole and hem are selvedges. I mean, you *can* fold and sew all the seam allowance edges inside, but I really think that would be overkill!

Quote:How well do cut edges that have been seamed and otherwise untouched hold up?

Unless you make them really narrow (under a quarter-inch), you'll be fine. I think I've machine-washed garments with the seam allowance edges just raw, not even zig-zagged, and no disasters, but I wouldn't push my luck too often with that. When in doubt, hand-washing is plenty effective and doesn't take long.

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#47
I agree with all Matt says here. The luck pushing ends when the edges that unravel meet the stitching. They will make a kind of a "bump" along the seam sometimes. Then, if they continue to unravel (this happened to mine before I frowned, gritted my teeth, grumped a little, then got needle and thread and finished the seams like you see in the picture). The linen was loosely woven, and heavier weight than needed for a typical tunic, so maybe that was my fault. It wears like iron, though, now that the edges are overkilled.

Selvage (from Self + Edge) is the part of the cloth that's the left and right edge when it's woven. Because the weft (ancient past tense of "weave" = woven) thread turns back and makes the next row, it can't unravel. I've used it often for top and bottom edges of tunics. For me, a 58"-60" width of cloth us just perfect for a standard tunic. 45" is a little short, but might work fine for a Greek chiton.

Short: selvages won't unravel, and unless there's some strange color or appearance to the selvage on your cloth, it makes a fine, simple-to-do and very serviceable neck hole and hem.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#48
Quote:http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294...lnotes.jpg
This photo shows three views of stitching on the same natural colored tunic. I still wear this one (it's about three years old), and have only had to repair one seam where the sewing thread broke. Grr. It's unfortunate that for illustration purposes the thread is the same color as the tunic, but then, the thread was unravelled from the tunic, and that's to be expected.

The "inside" and "outside seam are really the same seam, with the fabric turned over. The "hem" is the double-fold and stitched edge you may be looking for for your sleeves. This one is a sleeve as it turns out. PM if you can't figure out from the photo what's going on with the seams, and I'll see if I can help. :wink:

I took another look at this picture, and now I am somewhat confused again.
From what I have read, sewing a seam means the two pieces of fabric lay one on top of the other. You sew a running stitch along the edge, leaving the armholes, lower area (Body hole? Hem? I am slightly confused about what this is called), and neckhole open. The armhole and neckhole being the selvages leaves the sides as the cut edges. This leaves two layers of cut edges. If I wanted to overkill hem them, would I fold and hem all four seam allowance edges separately, and then turn the tunic inside-out (inside-in)?
The reason I go through all of that is the only other way I can think of to ask the question involves using images of what I mean. I ask because the picture looks nothing like what I just described (at least it does not to me, could be I am wrong.)
Dylan

I chose the name Phoenician because I have a large interest in Phoenician and Carthaginian history. I am interested in many other areas as well, however.
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#49
Picture two rectangles of cloth, selvages at the top and bottom, lying on top of each other. Same sized panels. Sew from the upper corner in toward the center, from both sides, leaving the desired area of selvage unsewn at the top center as the neckhole. Make sure there's a half inch from the neck hole that you sew back to the shoulders. Double sewn, because this corner is the weak spot of the whole garment. Weak=most likely to tear under stress.

On my tunic, I then rolled the cut edges at the shoulder (both sides of the neckhole) under and sewed over the fold, capturing the cut edges underneath. With finer weave cloth, that would not have been necessary.

Then, from the bottom, sew up both sides, leaving the armholes the size you think is right. These should be bigger than any sleeve on your shirts or garments. I often leave about 12-14" unsewn, making a 24-28" circumference hole for the arms. Loose. Even floppy. It works, you'll see. The open, cut ends of that are what is to be hemmed. A hem is a seam made from the same, single piece of cloth, folded back on itself. Look at the bottom of the leg of your jeans. That's a "folded under hem". You can see it pretty easily there. You may or may not need to fold it under. You'll know after the first time you wash, or by the fourth or fifth tunic you sew (experience will teach you which cloth you can trust not to unravel too much).

1. Sew the shoulders.
2. Sew the sides.
3. Hem the "cuffs", or whatever you call the armhole edges of a tunic.
4. Pat yourself on the back. You are now well within the 1% of the population who have experience with sewing by hand.

Naturally, if you wanted to, you could sew the whole thing on a machine in 20 minutes or less. A typical tunic, made like I've described takes me about two or three hours of steady sewing. You'll learn how much thread to put on the needle. BTW, button thread works just fine for tunic weight material. It's about three times as thick as regular thread and ten times less likely to tangle, twist and break, but only about twice as expensive. I almost always use it, if I don't use unravelled threads from the fabric. The eyes sort of like it when I treat them nicely, and the garment will look better when you can see each thread well as you sew. Age. Once you figure out how to do something, the eyes begin to go. Sigh. :|
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#50
Quote:Make sure there's a half inch from the neck hole that you sew back to the shoulders. Double sewn, because this corner is the weak spot of the whole garment. On my tunic, I then rolled the cut edges at the shoulder (both sides of the neckhole) under and sewed over the fold, capturing the cut edges underneath. With finer weave cloth, that would not have been necessary.

Did not quite understand the quoted part, but I understood everything else. I am not sure what you mean sewing half an inch back to the shoulders, and I assume by double sewn you mean sew two lines of stitching.

I have washed and dried the first piece of fabric (the natural color) and everything worked, both the first blanket stitch I was using and the much quicker whip stitch held up fine.
I did iron the fabric, but I lack an ironing board, and I had to lay a couple of towels on the table to protect it. This made the surface somewhat uneven. The fabric being nine feet by five feet also meant I had to do very small areas at a time. I ironed the entire piece, but I don't know if those factors will cause any problems.
Dylan

I chose the name Phoenician because I have a large interest in Phoenician and Carthaginian history. I am interested in many other areas as well, however.
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#51
Quote:and I assume by double sewn you mean sew two lines of stitching
Double stitch. "Bar tack" is a machine term for it. Basically, I've found that it's better not to have the knot in a line of stitching be at the end of the line: rather, it's better if the knot is a few stitches back from the end of the stitch line. So what I was trying to say was, sew from the shoulder to the neck hole, but don't tie off there. Stitch back towards the shoulder about a half inch, or at least three or four stitches. That way, the neck hole has some reinforcement. If it still looks like it wants to tear there, then sew a couple of stitches, or three, maybe across the seam, so the stress doesn't hit the first line of stitching. If that doesn't make sense, PM me and I'll see if I can come up with a better way to explain.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#52
Nope, makes perfect sense now, thanks.

Edit: I have found a method of ironing that makes things go much more smoothly. I no longer have issues with getting the piece ironed evenly.
Dylan

I chose the name Phoenician because I have a large interest in Phoenician and Carthaginian history. I am interested in many other areas as well, however.
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#53
I made my undertunic. Everything worked fine, it's the perfect size, I went ahead and overkilled the seam allowances on the cut edges with a sort of double hem, and it feels as strong as any piece of clothing I have. Only thing is I made the neck hole slightly smaller than I intended to, but it is a very small issue.
Dylan

I chose the name Phoenician because I have a large interest in Phoenician and Carthaginian history. I am interested in many other areas as well, however.
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#54
...and it took less time to do than to figure out, right? Welcome to the Brotherhood of the OverThinkers!
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#55
Heh, I got it finished in probably 3-4 hours of sewing (not including breaks). Took me about a week to figure it out, and is only after I got the fabric (not including my time out of town either!)

I was thinking I would buy some wire to make fibulae for my chiton and any cloaks I make, is mcmaster.com a good source for wire?
Dylan

I chose the name Phoenician because I have a large interest in Phoenician and Carthaginian history. I am interested in many other areas as well, however.
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#56
They have all kinds of wire, but so does the hobby shop. Less freight. Also if you have any shops that cater to jewelry makers, they have various kinds of wire.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#57
I'll make sure to look around locally before ordering anything.

I've been looking around at shields on these forums, a lot of people use plywood for making them. If I want to make a small round caetra shield, would I be better off going with plywood or regular hardwood?

Also, what would be an accurate design for shoes? I've seen some that look like flip-flops, others that look more like regular sandals, and then there are of course caligae.
Dylan

I chose the name Phoenician because I have a large interest in Phoenician and Carthaginian history. I am interested in many other areas as well, however.
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#58
Search for carbatina. That's a name for a general purpose shoe, made in a hundred substyles, worn from hundreds of years BC on into the Renaissance.

http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-ca ... mshoe2.htm

That's a starting point. Soft leather feels better on the feet, so moccasin tanned cowhide, deer, elk, goat are all good choices. Veg tanned goatskin, if you can find it, is reported to be both strong and soft. Veg tanned cowhide is a little stiff, but can be oiled and made to work well.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#59
I was doing a bit of browsing around fabric sites for wool, and I happened to find this and some other colors in the same weight. No idea about this weight or specific wool, would it be of any use for tunic making? It's some of the cheapest I have found. I was actually looking for wool to make a cloak with, but I stumbled upon that.
Dylan

I chose the name Phoenician because I have a large interest in Phoenician and Carthaginian history. I am interested in many other areas as well, however.
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#60
"Worsted" wool is very tightly twisted yarn, and while it's plausible that the Romans/Greeks had the ability to overtwist the yarn as it was spun, it's not very likely. However, having said that, it would make a very nice "dress up" tunic. The cloth is usually tightly woven and sometimes can become almost shiny. Because it's lightweight, however, it wouldn't make a very effective cloak, I'd think.

For a cloak, look for medium to heavy weight. Remember, the cloak was a barrier against both rain and cold. Blanket weight is a good choice, but you have to temper that with your local climate. In Michigan, say, would you rather wrap up with a bedsheet or a blanket on a windy winter evening?

http://www.sheepcentre.co.uk/wool.htm has some good info on wool fabric history and the worsting process.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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