Synaspismos image

[PMBardunias]

Does anyone happen to recognize this vase? I have the image, but not the provenance. It is perhaps the best image I have seen of hoplites with overlapped shields. Most images, like the Chigi, in fact show aspides facing the enemy edge-on, not overlapped.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Paul,this one could even be showing two ranks of men. This cannot in any case be certain,but it does seem as of the front rank Heracles has killed one and is dealing with the second,and the secons rank is still intact. If this is the case,then we at least see that the second rankers were taking part in the fencing!
Khaire
Giannis

[PMBardunias]

Paul,this one could even be showing two ranks of men.

I agree that there are many ways to read this vase- as always- and I would give a lot to have those chunks that are missing intact. One thing I noticed is that the two men with seemingly overlapped shields are standing on opposite sides of the wounded hoplite on the ground- see the legs. Perhaps they have closed their shields over their fallen comrade. Do you have a guess as to what story this is drawn from?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

They could even be Amazons as they some times are shown as hoplites fighting in close order. In the Syphnian treasure, i think that Heracles is among the gods who fight titans,and the titans are typically hoplites. He's also among the gods in the Aphaia temple...
Khaire
Giannis

[Macedon]

I guess that the most interesting feature in this picture is the way the shields overlap, which agrees to my and Paul's idea of "synaspismos", as we have discussed it in the past. Right shield over left shield is what is clearly depicted here. Thanks Paul for the great pic.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yes,of course if it was the other way round you woulfd both say that it is not an overlap but that the shields are vertical towards the enemy,as Paul actually suggested few posts above. However you don't consider the fact that artists till much later than the mid 6th century never depicted their shields in anything other than face on and profile views. 3/4 was clearly too advanced perception for them due to the odd shape of the aspis. This is evident since even the best artists of the mid 5th century have painted some really messed up shields in 3/4 view. In fact artists some time have problems even with the complete profile!
In the case of this vase,if the artist wanted to show two hoplites in a row with shields overlapping the other way round,the second shield would have to be invisible,and the whole thing would be too complicated.
Khairete
Giannis

[PMBardunias]

Yes,of course if it was the other way round you woulfd both say that it is not an overlap but that the shields are vertical towards the enemy,as Paul actually suggested few posts above.

You are right, I probably would. But it is not the appearance of "facing us" alone that causes me to call them edge-on. In many of these depictions you can clearly see weapons sticking out between shields, thus they could not be overlapped. I think it is possible that what we are seeing is not the phalanx in synaspismos, which would be very hard to draw, but the phalanx marching to batle in formation, with shield to the left side. In general I do not believe they fought in ranks with the shield side on. In the Chigi for example, they may well be preparing to throw their second spear (either because hoplites actually did at that date, or because the artist was depicting a battle that contained Homeric-style descriptions of thrown spears). For what it is worth, most of the images I have found of shields overlapped my way are I think simply men in file- which is why this one is so important.

This is worthy of a thread all its own, but if you look at 6th century statuettes of hoplites, you will notice there are two distinct postures: One with the shield held as if on the shoulder, edge on to the foe, and one where the shield crosses the front of the chest. Interestingly the arm is often held down at a 45 degree angle across the chest, the left hand down by the waist. By far the least common statue pose is the most famous, that with the body side-on and the shield, often a boeotian on the extended front arm as we see on vases commonly.

[Robert Vermaat]

If this is the case,then we at least see that the second rankers were taking part in the fencing!

Which only seems logical.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

It does seem very logical but i don't think it is universally believed as such. I have seen both re-enactment groups and statements from schollars regarding the spacing of hoplites that disagree.
Khaire
Giannis

[Robert Vermaat]

Me too. For instance, some groups insist on a wider spacing because then it's possible to use the sword. Indeed, in a very close position, the use of the sword would be limited. However, that does (in my opinion) not mean that formations like synaspismos were not closely-packed with very few space for each individual.
Indeed, it would make it even MORE logical for the ranks behind the front rank to fight in support.

[hoplite14gr]

I will second Robert's remark here about space in tight formations.
I also feel that the image Paul post is very interesting but leaves a lot to interpretation.
Kind regards

[Astiryu1]

The tight conditions do lend credence to primarily stabbing strikes.

[hoplite14gr]

The tight conditions do lend credence to primarily stabbing strikes.

True. From personal experience only the rightmost stichos has some freedom of movement with the right hand but the rest have serious limitations

Kind regards