Metal plate beneath Linothorakes or Spolades

[Paullus Scipio]

Paul B wrote:

I in fact chose a middle ground on the dating. 575-560 is what I found most commonly, but some push the date anywhere from 600 -550BC.

Dating is not an exact science of course, and I haven't seen any date estimated earlier than 570-560 BC, which is what it is labelled in the Florence archaeological museum.

Either it is an armor possessing a tube and yoke, or it isn't.

Clearly it isn't an armour at all in the light of Giannis' post and comparison with the typical female dress I posted - Atalanta merely has her skirts lifted to facilitate running. I had earlier remarked on the fact that there was no real 'tube', and that the 'yoke' might imply an ancestor of the true tube-and-yoke, but as soon as I saw Giannis' post I realised he was right - it is like the optical illusion which can appear as a vase or two faces in profile facing one another. There is no 'yoke' either! :oops:

Ruben wrote:

Why is Syria a best guess? Considering that this guy's helmet is almost identical to that worn by the Seleucia cataphract figurine, evidently an Iranian type, there's a good chance that he is Parthian, and therefore the best guess would be Mesopotamia.

As I indicated, it seems obvious the find-place is "unknown", and commentators have guessed 'Syria' ( meaning the Seleucid heartlands) or 'Mesopotamia' based on its supposed styles. But it could be either - or neither. The Louvre evidently think 'Syria'/Seleucid empire rather than Eastern/Parthian origin, hence my comment about THEIR 'best guess'. I wouldn't necessarily call the helmet type 'Iranian' either - simple conical type helmets had existed in the Greek/Hellenistic world for centuries - the Pergamum trophy relief has a ( presumably) captured Seleucid helmet very similar, but with mask.

We can't see both sides of these arm defences on the Pergamon reliefs, so we can't know if maybe segments were missing around the inside of the elbow region to facilitate the bending of the arm. That's really all it would take to allow such defences made of metal to be able to be functional

Judging by the relief ( see attached) we can in fact see the 'inside' of one elbow - note the way they are bent- and metal simply wouldn't work. Note also the way both tubes seem to be of a spiral or wrapped form, which suggests organic material, though possibly the wristlet pieces are of metal.

Of further interest is the crested head-piece of horse armour, and the peytral of strips, also for a horse, suggesting what form early cataphract horse armour may have taken.