Are Phalerae over done by reenactors?

[texascavtrooper]

Ok I'm sure this will rattle the cages of a few out there but I have to ask. Are Phalerae being over done by reenactors today? I know we all want to look dashing with all the sparkely stuff but to me it looks like we have to many Centurians with Phalerae. I have been looking at a lot of grave stones and only a few have them on the stone and they seem to be senior Centurians. So please let me know are we over doing them or not. I am putting together an immpression and want to do it write. So any help given would be great.
Thanks,
Bryan

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

I advise you to ask this in the thread: did only centurios wear medals ?

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M.VIB.M.

[texascavtrooper]

Well I know that there are one or two signifer that have them. I was mainly wanting to know about Centurions though.

[jvrjenivs]

Okay, you can see my opinion in wearing decorations in the other topic, Henk Jan already put forward. This is based on my impression that most of use are to plain. Thereby I mean we are looking to 'uniform'. The Roman army\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0\\0, in my opinion, must have been much more colourful as we represent it now a days. Full of ugly colors, decorations, etc. That would thus be my general answer to your question.

Now, when we look to centurios specifically, I've to admit that the idea that every centurio should wear phalerae (as seems to be the case in most re-enactment groups) is certainly wrong. We've enough evidence for undecorated centurios. So you should do perfectly to portray a centurio without those shiny pieces, surely when you're among other groups (and thus among other centurios).

The main reason for me to add them in my impression is that it is mainly used for commercial projects where they just want to have the bling-bling for the press etc. If I would have to do a centurio impression just for re-enactment and not for the bling-bling, I would certainly go for a reconstruction of the kit Facilis is wearing on his stele. Simple and can be colourful.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Though i do not at all agree with the [qualification edited by moderator] reconstruction as was posted in AWM....

M.VIB.M.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I have been thinking along the lines of the one on pg 10 of that special issue.
Assuming I can get a Squamata(sorry, losing it there) made with the double scaled pturges that I was thinking of, as shown in the image.
But I would go for a set of phalerae too.

[P Sertorius Scaevola]

I'm confident the impressions of centuriones with phalera aren't overdone. Not in the least. However, we all know that these front rank fighting machines fell in battle frequently and there was a constant movement of optiones up the chain of command. That leads me to a couple of interesting questions;

If the centurio died, what happened to his decorations? Did they go to the legion treasury or what? The family if there were any?

Another one is that popular belief has it that the phalerae worn by centuriones might not all be granted for personal valour but also for that of the centuria. Then what? Would these automatically be passed on to the optio upon gaining command of the centuria?

What if the promotee already had been awarded phalera or the like earlier in his carreer; would these be incorporated into the set he would wear as a centurio?

Please fellow RATters, enlighten me with your insights!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

It would seem to be contradictory though, maybe?
I would have thought unit awards were either incorporated into the standards or something, for as you say, especially in a campaign where there were high centurial losses, the poor buggers being promoted would be staggering under the weight eventually....?

[jvrjenivs]

I'm confident the impressions of centuriones with phalera aren't overdone. Not in the least. However, we all know that these front rank fighting machines fell in battle frequently and there was a constant movement of optiones up the chain of command. That leads me to a couple of interesting questions;

If the centurio died, what happened to his decorations? Did they go to the legion treasury or what? The family if there were any?

This is an interesting point, you put forward here. As we look at the way this kind of awards are always presented on stele, they were at least of some personal importance. I don't have Maxfield ready, so I can't check what he comments on this. I don't think they go to family as we also see that a lot of gear was re-used within the army, so why not his awards.

Another one is that popular belief has it that the phalerae worn by centuriones might not all be granted for personal valour but also for that of the centuria. Then what? Would these automatically be passed on to the optio upon gaining command of the centuria?

Interesting idea. Have to think about it, though. At least the optio seems to got the command automatically, so why not the awards grated to that position. Although this can be in contradiction with the fact that it seems that although awards were granted for the whole unit, they were still granted to a person, not to the office (as far as I believe it is).

What if the promotee already had been awarded phalera or the like earlier in his carreer; would these be incorporated into the set he would wear as a centurio?

Again, I don't have Maxfield at hand, but I was in the impression that phalerae were always awarded in sets, not as single items. This would suggest you can't simply combine them with earlier received ones. Interesting in this respect is the stele of of Tiberius Claudius Vitalis, which reads:

(...) decorated with torques, armlets, phalerae and a rampart crown (...) again decorated with torques, armlets, phalerae and a rampart crown (...)

So, would he have worn 2 sets. I don't believe. Okay, more armlets you can wear.

So, Paul, just my 2 denarii on the matter. Interesting questions, though. I'm going to think some more about it

[Marcus Mummius]

So, would he have worn 2 sets. I don't believe. Okay, more armlets you can wear.

One set front, one set back, perfectly possible. Because most depections are of the front you can't see this on the gravesteles

[jvrjenivs]

So, would he have worn 2 sets. I don't believe. Okay, more armlets you can wear.

One set front, one set back, perfectly possible. Because most depections are of the front you can't see this on the gravesteles

And a third set on his furca?

[M. Demetrius]

Maybe another set or two on his mule's straps?

[P Sertorius Scaevola]

I was under the impression that Dona were primarily granted as a right i.e. the right to wear them. Not nescessarily a material grant then. This provides some flexibility as to how the commandant could present the actual award...Jokingly you have all just presented an interesting dilemma that I don't recall reading of in Maxfield. However, that was several years ago.

[P Sertorius Scaevola]

A little paging through Maxfield provides some support for the idea that the Dona were returned to the legion for renewed issue;

“Such fine objects will have had a long life. On the death of a soldier who won them they may well have been returned or sold back to his unit (this was common practice with standard military equipment) and later been re-used; this could explain the two different names , one of which it should be noted was a T. Flavius, a man whose citizenship, or whose forebears citizenship, had very probably been awarded by a Flavian emperor."

[P Sertorius Scaevola]

I must apologise for letting myself get carried away posing new questions where Brian is in the market for answers :oops:

Maxfield shows us several sources of evidence for the presentation of Dona Militaria to Centuriones and the common legionary, amongst others. Post Claudian he tells us of 15 known examples of dona being awarded of which 6 are to common legionaries. Whilst this must be a misrepresentation of the actual practice it becomes clear that on occasion soldiers below the Centurionate could wear them. Proper sense leads to the thought that every one in somany re-enactor legionaries should be permitted to wear them

In the end it all depends on your point of view; are you a purist that attempts to accurately represent the image of an actual centurio, like Facilis? Then you will steer clear of the use of phalerae, simply because they're not depicted. Were they commonly worn by the centuriones? Absolutely, so go for it if you will. Simple as that.