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Late 4th century sarcophagus
#1
This sarcophagus from the mid to late 4th century is in Split museum where I was lucky enough to be last week, and I don't recall it being discussed before?

It depicts the destruction of Pharoah's army in the Red sea but the troops are a mixture of more contemporary and possibly older styles e.g. Attic helmets.
I think I recall some discussion (by Graham Sumner??) on the armour? The central soldier is depicted as having some form of body armour with a distinct "dot"in the middle of each diamond shaped section. I don't believe that this was a lazy attempt to depict mail given the sculpture detail in the rest of the piece- but is perhaps a padded jack similar to a medieval coat of plates/ brigandine? A lot of other interesting detail as well, I thought.
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I would thoroughly recommend a visit to Split (some cheap flights from UK by Easyjet). As a taster, here is the Roman Silver Gate.
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Diocletian's Mausoleum on the left- now a Christian church. Inside the mausoleum the original frieze is still there showing (amongst other things) cherubs with oval flat shields.
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And the vestibule of Diocletian's Palace-plus my family to give it some scale.
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aka Paul B, moderator
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Moderation in all things
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#2
lamellar?
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
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#3
I do not think it is Lamellar it is what may be coat armour as is mentioned in Suetonius being worn by Galba when he set off from Spain on his way to Rome in 68 AD, with only his dagger hanging around his chest next to his heart.
In fact it is similar to a piece of armour I made many years ago for the Middle March Centre in Hexham Northumberland 17th-18th century period which was known as a jack made from double leather with diamond shape metal plates in it the studs represent rivets and the diamond shapes are sewn in around the plates.
Brian Stobbs
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#4
Thanks Paul

Quote:I think I recall some discussion (by Graham Sumner??) on the armour? The central soldier is depicted as having some form of body armour with a distinct "dot"in the middle of each diamond shaped section.

While I had seen the central figure before the rest was new to me. The figure was listed amongst my possible Subarmalis contenders, illustrated in 'Roman Military Dress'. The same design also appears in a similar but later list of padded armour designs, produced by Timothy Dawson in one of his recent Books on the Byzantine soldiers. I guess you can argue that this is continuity of either actual designs or artistic conventions, even though I think we all agree that some form of padding was worn underneath whatever armour was used.

Perhaps of even more interest is the cross between a cape and a life preserver which is worn in the last photo!! I have never seen anything like that before.

Great stuff, thanks for posting.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#5
An almost identical convention occures in a relief of Marcus Aurelius where he speaks to soldiers. From right to left are marcus Aurelius, and three soldies, wearing in order, scale, segmentata, and a torso defence cut the same as the scale, but with a dot inside squares. If, or how many times the relief has been modified or restored, is not known to me. The head of M. Aurelius has been replaced in antiquity by someone elses head. All you guys who posted know which one I am talking about because you are quite knowlegable on the subject, and I would like you take on the M.Aurelius relief. I point this relief out to newer members. A plate of the relief can be found in The Army of the Caesars, Michael Grant, 1974.

Ralph
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#6
Hello Ralph

Quote:An almost identical convention occures in a relief of Marcus Aurelius where he speaks to soldiers. From right to left are marcus Aurelius, and three soldies, wearing in order, scale, segmentata, and a torso defence cut the same as the scale, but with a dot inside squares. If, or how many times the relief has been modified or restored, is not known to me. The head of M. Aurelius has been replaced in antiquity by someone elses head. Both you guys know which one I am talking about because you are both quite knowlegable on the subject, and I would like you take on the M.Aurelius relief. I point this relief out to newer members. A plate of the relief can be found in The Army of the Caesars, Michael Grant, 1974.

Indeed, that design was also included amongst my list. Several textile people I spoke to when conducting my research and a number of medieval re-enactors all said without hesitation that the designs were textile quilting of some sort. One even said it was gilded leather! The usual interpretation however is that it is mail but one would have thought that for a major imperial commission a sculptor who could indicate mail in a better manner, if that was the intention, could have been found.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#7
The people with the 'life preservers' appear to be fleeing from the destruction of a seige or battle with small children.
Perhaps they have a few possessions or some food wrapped in a blanket or cloak?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#8
Thanks Byron. Its actually Moses (looking very smug and pleased with himself and without the Charlton Heston beard) parting the Red Sea, getting the Israelites across and lettingthe waters come together to drown Pharoah's pursuing army.

I think medieval reenactors (and even academics) have a lot of useful insight here. Some form of textile armour seems absolutely right.

And I hadn't noticed the chap with the life preserver in his cloak...very odd, but clearly a deliberate bit of carving as very easy to chip down to normal cloak proportions if it had been a mistake. Other ideas?
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aka Paul B, moderator
http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Moderation in all things
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#9
The life preservers (there is a second person with the same thing on his shoulders more in the background) are obviously bundles of supplies or waterskins carried over the shoulder. Remember these are the people of Israel fleeing across the red sea before pharao's army. Obviously they did not expect any manna and therefore took some supplies with them.
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#10
Thanks for the clarifications.....and yes that reinforces my interpretatuion.....
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#11
@ Graham: I did not know Roman Military Dress was even out. I got it withing three days. (Having a wife who manages a book store has it's advatages). After looking at both the plates showing the Marcus Aurelius relief and the sarcophagus, I had a Homer Simpson moment, given my above post.

Can you comment on the Estepa, Seville relief? I am shortly about to have a copy of what I think is a reasonable interpretation. I would like to know if I can think what I think I think. Thats is, wool blanket or wool felt between an outer and inner layer of heavy rough canvas. The stitching lines are going to curve to the vertical and join in a V shape at the sides. The arm openings will have no sleeves.

Ralph
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