Question about the Roman \'wedge formation\'

[Astiryu1]

So if the wedge with a multiple man point were tried what would be the best number? I would choose nine as you have a man guarding each direction set up like a grid. The man in the middle could fill in any casualties and more could be brought up from behind. Basically acts like a funnel but it is just a theory of mine.

[Aulus Perrinius]

Another advantage of a wedge is that it means you need a smaller gap in the enemy lines.

[Dithrambus]

While this has become an interesting conversation and I thank each of you for your insightful responses, I am having difficulty determining the general consensus. Perhaps I should also apologize for my use of a made-up term: 'sawtooth' was simply the only phrase I could think of to describe what I had seen in the documentary. I am familiar with the 'boars head' or single mass wedge formation, it is the use of multiple wedges across the front line that seemed odd (at least to me). The documentary also seems to conflict with itself because the Romans are depicted in a typical line formation with the front rankers alternating I believe every six minutes and without much explanation they are depicted in the multiple wedge form, I do understand that the 'boars head' was used to break an enemy line, however if the Celts were already 'broken' so to speak, then I had assumed this was simply a 'killing machine' ('Mill of Ares' to us hoplites :wink: ) to finish the gruesome task. It is also quite possible that I have missed a point or two along the way :? To be more direct, am I to understand that this formation is simply theoretical? Or is there classical literary reference to it's use?

[Astiryu1]

Sorry I should have specified "I would do this in multiple places where necessary".
I know of none but wedges are a simple thing that is understood by many cultures/skilled tradesmen. To not see it on the battlefield at some point or other would be weird to me.
Anything that breaks marble and logs, should break a wall of men.

[Vindex]

To be more direct, am I to understand that this formation is simply theoretical? Or is there classical literary reference to it's use?

There's the Tacitus quote above (Annals XIV: 37) but I only have a Penguin translation and not the Latin word which has been translated as wedge (need a LOEB edition...) but it says the Legions and the Auxiliaries did the same thing, so you have at least two wedge formations on the battle field in front of the Celts.

The theories then fall from there, I would suggest. My assumption is that not the whole legion, but constituent parts formed a wedge (by cohort?) merely by the logical thought process of how do you get an entire legionary front into one formation and what would be it's use. If it were by cohort, the effect would be a line of wedges...hence the saw analogy...

Off to look up the Tacitus' actual phrase if I can find it...

(Good discussion though - thanks!)

EDIT:

Tacitus' phrase is "velut cuneo erupit" literally "as if in a wedge burst forth/out/on"

Cuneo can be translated thus:

Noun:
cune.o 2 1 DAT S M
cune.o 2 1 ABL S M
cuneus, cunei N (2nd) M [XXXBO]
wedge; wedge-shaped stone/area/rack/block of seats; battalion/etc in a wedge;

Verb

cune.o 1 1 PRES ACTIVE IND 1 S
cuneo, cuneare, cuneavi, cuneatus V (1st) TRANS [XXXCO]
wedge in, secure by wedging; force in like a wedge; form a wedge, taper; mass;


So it suggests a blunted 'point' if one considers a block of seats (which I think is a great analogy when you consider amphitheatres...)

[Dithrambus]

Here is another interesting video which depicts the 'sawtooth' from a BBC documentary. Apparently I did not make-up the term 'sawtooth' after all :oops: I will be sitting in the corner wearing the 'dunce hat' for the next 15 minutes :lol: :lol: :roll:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSXVDog- ... re=related

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Te one man point on the wedge is not unrealistic, as you break into the enemy formation and the two to either side break in to widen it.

[Nathan Ross]

Here is another interesting video which depicts the 'sawtooth' from a BBC documentary.

Same battle, same computer reconstruction! Apparently this documentary just reused footage from the other one.

Apparently I did not make-up the term 'sawtooth' after all

No you didn't, but neither did Tacitus! I'd like to know where the idea comes from, as I still don't think it's a genuine or viable Roman battlefield formation.

Unlike the computer reconstruction, Tacitus clearly says that the 'wedge' was adopted after the British attack had faltered and stalled - and then it was used to charge against the survivors, not to absorb the impact of an initial attack. The same tactic is described by Caesar (Gallic Wars 6.40) again used to 'suddenly break though' the enemy. Perhaps, in fact, it was only adopted to keep formation during a charge or fast advance in fairly open order: each man had only to keep behind and slightly to the right or left of the man ahead, and the formation would hold.

Consider, though, how difficult it would be to assume this supposed 'saw tooth' formation as a static or slow moving battle line. A computer, of course, can make everything regular, but imagine trying to get troops into such a complex order while under attack, with missiles flying... The men on the left of the 'teeth' would be protected by their shields, but the men on the right would be holding their shields inwards and so be exposed - no good! If one 'tooth' extended slightly too far forward it would be isolated and destroyed, and if one of the indented V's fell back too far, or was too weak, it would be broken by force of numbers. The result in either case would be the disintegration of the battle line into a mass of isolated individuals or small groups.

In short, unless somebody comes up with evidence to the contrary I'd be inclined to see this 'sawtooth' formation as something for neat-looking computer reconstructions and computer games only.

- Nathan

[Dithrambus]

Here is another interesting video which depicts the 'sawtooth' from a BBC documentary.

Same battle, same computer reconstruction! Apparently this documentary just reused footage from the other one.

Apparently I did not make-up the term 'sawtooth' after all

No you didn't, but neither did Tacitus! I'd like to know where the idea comes from, as I still don't think it's a genuine or viable Roman battlefield formation.

Unlike the computer reconstruction, Tacitus clearly says that the 'wedge' was adopted after the British attack had faltered and stalled - and then it was used to charge against the survivors, not to absorb the impact of an initial attack. The same tactic is described by Caesar (Gallic Wars 6.40) again used to 'suddenly break though' the enemy. Perhaps, in fact, it was only adopted to keep formation during a charge or fast advance in fairly open order: each man had only to keep behind and slightly to the right or left of the man ahead, and the formation would hold.

Consider, though, how difficult it would be to assume this supposed 'saw tooth' formation as a static or slow moving battle line. A computer, of course, can make everything regular, but imagine trying to get troops into such a complex order while under attack, with missiles flying... The men on the left of the 'teeth' would be protected by their shields, but the men on the right would be holding their shields inwards and so be exposed - no good! If one 'tooth' extended slightly too far forward it would be isolated and destroyed, and if one of the indented V's fell back too far, or was too weak, it would be broken by force of numbers. The result in either case would be the disintegration of the battle line into a mass of isolated individuals or small groups.

In short, unless somebody comes up with evidence to the contrary I'd be inclined to see this 'sawtooth' formation as something for neat-looking computer reconstructions and computer games only.

- Nathan

Well, I had assumed that only a well drilled Roman Legion would be even remotely capable of such a formation, but I am with you Nathan, I would also like to know where this theory originated and what if any reference is used to justify it.

Thanks

Mark H.

[Vindex]

Te one man point on the wedge is not unrealistic, as you break into the enemy formation and the two to either side break in to widen it.

I agree - not unrealistic at all.

I suppose it depends on the tactical situation as to the exact nature of the formation required. With good drills it wouldn't be a problem at all to have a one, three or even five man 'point'.

[jkaler48]

Here is a interpretation of the wedge formation at the Century level I did for Ludus Militis
Formation diagrams revised to work in RAT.


The Wedge formation of the Century and attached troops

Purpose:
The purpose of the wedge formation is to move the Century through enemy forces to reach an objective. This objective may be a camp, critical terrain, enemy command group, or even to open an escape route when surrounded.

History:
The wedge as a Legionary tactic is mentioned by Caesar: "caes.gal.6.40": [6.40] The camp-followers run forward to the nearest rising ground; being speedily driven from this they throw themselves among the standards and companies: they thus so much the more alarm the soldiers already affrighted. Some propose that, forming a wedge, they suddenly break through, since the camp was so near; and if any part should be surrounded and slain, they fully trust that at least the rest may be saved; others, that they take their stand on an eminence, and all undergo the same destiny. The veteran soldiers whom we stated to have set out together [with the others] under a standard, do not approve of this. Therefore encouraging each other, under the conduct of Caius Trebonius, a Roman knight, who had been appointed over them, they break through the midst of the enemy, and arrive in the camp safe to a man. The camp attendants and the horse following close upon them with the same impetuosity, are saved by the courage of the soldiers.

Julius Caesar. Gallic War (English) [ Caes. Gal. book 7 chapter 28 ]

They suddenly flew out from all quarters and quickly filled the walls. The enemy being alarmed by the suddenness of the attack, were dislodged from the wall and towers, and drew up, in form of a wedge, in the market place and the open streets, with this intention that, if an attack should be made on any side, they should fight with their line drawn up to receive it.

Livy. ab Urbe Condita [ Liv. book 2 chapter 50 ]

After a time they abandoned their plan of presenting a front on all sides; facing in one direction they formed themselves into a wedge and by the utmost exertion of sword and muscle forced a passage through. The road led up to gentle eminence, and here they halted.

5. Livy. ab Urbe Condita [ Liv. book 7 chapter 24 ]
Thus encouraged they made a fresh charge, dislodged the front companies of the Gauls, and closing up their maniples into a wedge penetrated the enemy's centre. Then the barbarians were broken up, and having no leadership or definite orders they turned the attack on to their own reserves.

Tacitus. Annales (English) [ Tac. Ann. book 14 chapter 37 ]

At first, the legion kept its position, clinging to the narrow defile as a defence; when they had exhausted their missiles, which they discharged with unerring aim on the closely approaching foe, they rushed out in a wedge-like column.

Execution:

Since the intent of the wedge is to move through the enemy pushing the enemy out of the way is more desirable than to cause casualties which may impede the advance by falling underfoot. In the sense of the individual soldier it is therefore a Defensive operation rather than an Offensive one and stopping to engage the enemy is prohibited while the wedge is still able to move forward. It is equally important that the formation stay close and compact and gaps not be allowed to form underway. The rear rank of the formation is an important part of the wedge as it is the most vulnerable to attack. Consequently the rear rank when reaching the front rank of the enemy formation will turn their scuta side to the rear and proceed stepping sideways in the direction of the wedge's travel. The Optio or other surviving second in command of the century will station himself center and directly behind the rear rank and supervise it's movement. If necessary he will cause the second to last rank to take hold of the right shoulder of the last rank and guide/pull them along with the formation. The centurion must be careful to adjust the speed of the wedge not to exceed the speed of the rear rank at this point.
Wounded soldiers unable to continue to fight will rotate to the interior of the formation. Those unable to continue in the advance will be assisted by those in the interior or
if mortally wounded or the situation requires will not be left behind to be captured alive by barbarian enemies.

Attached slingers and archers will be stationed inside and support the wedge formation as directed by the Centurion. If attached Light armed Legionary troops or Heavy Infantry Auxillia should be assigned to the rear rank. Light armed legionaries because they can move faster and Heavy Infantry Auxillia because they are armed with hasta and can stand off any pursuing enemy a little farther. Any attached cavalry not able to maneuver around the enemy formation to rejoin the Century should follow the wedge as closely as practical. Any attached Artillery unable to keep up with the formation should be disabled and the crews join the wedge formation.

Single Century Wedge Formation Positions:

Standard Wedge
--------------------C--------------------
-------------------MTM-------------------
------------------MMMMM------------------
-----------------MMMSMMM-----------------
----------------MMMMCMMMM----------------
---------------MMMMBBBMMMM---------------
--------------MMMMMMMMMMMMM--------------
-------------MMMMMMMOMMMMMMM-------------
------------MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM------------


C= Centurion M= Milites S = Signifier C = Cornicen B=Balistrii O = Optio T= Tessararius


Single Century Deliberate Wedge with attached troops
--------------------------C------------------------
------------------------MTM----------------------
----------------------MMMMM-------------------
--------------------MMMSMMM-----------------
------------------MMMMCMMMM----------------
----------------MMAMBBBMMAMM----------------
-------------MMAMMMMMMMAMM---------------
-----------MMAMMMMMMMMMAMM--------------
--------MMMMMMMMOMMMMMMMM-----------
--------XLXLXLXLXLXLXLXLXLXLXLLX ----------
--------------- H H H-----------------------
----------------H H H -----------------------


C= Centurion M= Milites S = Signifier C = Cornicen B=Balistrii O = Optio T= Tessararius A = Acher L = Light Armed Legionary X = Auxillia Heavy Infantry

Single Century Hasty Wedge executed from the column
------C-------
--- MTM------
--MMMMM----
MMMSMMM--
MMMCMMMM
MMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMM
MMMMMMMM
MMMOMMMM
MMMMMMMM

C= Centurion M= Milites S = Signifier C = Cornicen B=Balistrii O = Optio T= Tessararius



Forming the Wedge from the line Formation:
Pending

Forming the Wedge from a column or march formation:
Pending

Command:
Hand and Arm Signal: Arms raised in a "V" with or without shield and Gladius/Pila as the tactical situation dictates
Standard: Signal for "Attention to orders" is given
Cornu: Call for Wedge is sounded Short Medium and Long notes Descending
Verbal command: Ad Cuneum is given by the Centurion and repeated by junior officers as needed



Follow on Formations:

Depending on the situation the Centurion will order an appropriate follow on formation which may be a retrograde fighting formation, a rally, or defensive formation at the objective.

[Dithrambus]

jKaler48 wrote:

Purpose:
The purpose of the wedge formation is to move the Century through enemy forces to reach an objective. This objective may be a camp, critical terrain,
enemy command group, or even to open an escape route when surrounded.

Thank you John for such an in-depth answer, while I understand the structure (I think) of the wedge that you have so expertly depicted, my question actually pertains to the 'sawtooth' formation as depicted in the BBC documentary on the celtic queen Boudicca which features a series of smaller wedges extending across the entire Roman line (battle of Watling Street), this has seemed to stir debate over the use of such a formation. Now if I am missing something here (which is quite possible), please forgive me. Am I to assume that you agree with this multiple wedge? Would the single wedge that you have depicted simply be repeated several times across the entire line?

Again, if I have failed to understand you fully, then I ask that you please forgive a fellow Tennessean. :wink:

Here is a short video from the BBC doc:

Link was broken, please see next post below.

Thanks

[Dithrambus]

I have been informed that the link I posted does not work, here is the proper url:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSXVDog- ... re=related

[Ron Andrea]

Well-produced bit on that link, even if not true.

There's a difference between a wedge and and saw tooth.

A single wedge might naturally form as the front advanced with the most vigorous part of the line, perhaps the centurion and those about him, pushed into the enemy faster than the rest of the line. He would try to maintain momentum. Those close to him would close up the side so he wasn't shut off, and soon you have a wedge.

If you had time to form it, as recorded by Julius Caesar and others, so much the better.

[jkaler48]

I don't recall any historical evidence for the saw tooth formation. I can't see any tactical advantage for it. In the video the Britons fill up the spaces and have a mirror formation
against the Romans and in theory have the same formation and tactical advantage against the Romans. What little evidence we have for the wedge as a legionary tactic could be interpreted that there were both hasty (Ad Hoc) and deliberate (Trained & practiced) forms of the tactic.