Does anyone recognize this weapon?

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

I forgot to add the Chopper-Whopper and the Stabber-Jabber. It would an open debate if the Meso-American macuahuitl was Dicer-Slicer or a Chopper-Whopper. Enough to get into a fist fight over at an archaeological Friday-Night-At-The Drunkies, which is another Archaeological term. (Most people would be amazed at what goes on a number of digs behind the scenes. Never let your children go on an Archaeological project without a serious discussion.) Probable macuahuitl blade fragments made of Valley of Mexico obsidian have been found in the Albuquerque, New Mexico area. The Coronado expedition of 1539 -1542 lists “Native Weapons” in an inventory, and the Tlaxcallan porters who accompanied the expedition were allies with Cortez , probably carried them.

Copper implements including projectile points have been found in the Great Lakes "Old Copper Culture" of the Middle Archaic somewhere around 5000-1000 B.C. This time frame might have changes since the source I have is 1960s.This tradition never developed true bronze and was probably resticted to local outcrops of almost pure copper nuggets found in the region.

American Archaeology is closely associated with Anthropology, where in Europe it is more related to History. Anthropology tends to view tribal societies from a concept put forth by Rousseau in the 1750s that humans in a "natural state" are less violent than more technical cultures. This is despite all evidence to the contrary, but a priori assumptions persist, even in academia, and weapons are often not identified as such, and deemed "ceremonial". If you publically point out evidence to the contrary , of which there is plenty of, you are mostly either ignored or often pronounced a racist. The academic literature finally come to terms with this, and in specific, I recommend 'Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage' by Steven A. LeBlanc, 2003, St. Martin's Press.

Ralph

[Astiryu1]

Anthropology tends to view tribal societies from a concept put forth by Rousseau in the 1750s that humans in a "natural state" are less violent than more technical cultures. This is despite all evidence to the contrary, but a priori assumptions persist, even in academia, and weapons are often not identified as such, and deemed "ceremonial".
Ralph

I would agree with that regarding Hunter-Gatherer Societies but only to a point. Resources and clan/tribe relations has always been a factor. Technology gives more reason to wage war but there is always the factor of human emotion on what they hold as their own and what they need to survive. This I believe would exist in any H-G society regardless of where.

That book does sound interesting! Thank You.

I hope this is okay to post.
Link to googlebooks of "Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage' by Steven A. LeBlanc"

[url:18f8v7j2]http://books.google.com/books?id=y_XD7KHgGWkC&dq=Constant+Battles:+The+Myth+of+the+Peaceful+Savage%27+by+Steven+A.+LeBlanc,+2003,+St.+Martin%27s+Press.&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=DV1TTMJUgbvyBsvX1KkE&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false[/url]

[Dithrambus]

Astiryu1 wrote:

I hope this is okay to post.
Link to googlebooks of "Constant Battles: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage' by Steven A. LeBlanc"

Interesting depiction of armor on the cover, Note the: shield apron, greaves and what appear to be pteryges on the back plate. I would like to know the origin of this image. 8)

[Astiryu1]

It is an Aztec Warrior.
Osprey's "Aztec Warrior 1321-1521" is pretty decent for this.
Here are 2 pics from it that are similar
Anything look familiar? 8)

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

The cover is from the Codex Ixtlxochitlil in the Biblioteque Nationale de France, and is attributed to be the Casique of Tetzecoco, Nezahualcoyotl. The painting was done circa 1625 and taken from or a copy of existent codex. Many of the Tetzcoco (Texcoco) fought on the side of Cortez. They, along with the Talascallans were quicky assimiliated into the Spanish system, and by the 1530s many were armed in the Spanish style, with the highest ranks riding horses. They made up a sizable component of Cortez's expedition into Honduras. It is sometimes difficult to identify them in official records since they adopted Spanish names from the outset when baptised.

Ralph

[Dithrambus]

Anything look familiar?

Very!

[Astiryu1]

I thought so too! Especially the padded armor.

[Dithrambus]

The cover is from the Codex Ixtlxochitlil in the Biblioteque Nationale de France, and is attributed to be the Casique of Tetzecoco, Nezahualcoyotl. The painting was done circa 1625 and taken from or a copy of existent codex. Many of the Tetzcoco (Texcoco) fought on the side of Cortez. They, along with the Talascallans were quicky assimiliated into the Spanish system, and by the 1530s many were armed in the Spanish style, with the highest ranks riding horses. They made up a sizable component of Cortez's expedition into Honduras. It is sometimes difficult to identify them in official records since they adopted Spanish names from the outset when baptised.

Ralph

Thanks for the book suggestion, I will add this to my Amazon wish list, I am about three books behind at the moment but I will be reading this one soon.

Thanks again,

Mark H.

On a side note I am currently reading: 'The Western way of war' by Victor Davis Hanson and I strongly encourage anyone who is interested not only in Greek hoplite warfare but Western warfare in general to read this book if you have not already done so.

[IHPA]

It definitely is not a Maori weapon, and I don't think it came from Tonga or Samoa either. To me it looks Indonesian or possibly Micronesian.

By the way, Maori DID have a weapon edged with sharks teeth, it is called a maripi. Mostly ceremonial.