Pompei cloth armour?

[Dan Howard]

Does anyone know about an alleged find of cloth armour at Pompei
http://corrieredelmezzogiorno.corriere. ... 6178.shtml

I can't read Italian but apparently they found body armour made of multiple layers of ginestra - broom plant fibre. I have a couple of questions: firstly, what exactly was found and, secondly, how likely is it that it actually was a fragment of body armour? What context makes then think that it is armour and not, say, a fragment of a folded sheet of cloth?

[mcbishop]

I can't read Italian but apparently they found body armour made of multiple layers of ginestra - broom plant fibre. I have a couple of questions: firstly, what exactly was found and, secondly, how likely is it that it actually was a fragment of body armour? What context makes then think that it is armour and not, say, a fragment of a folded sheet of cloth?

Well according to Google Translate (I have a neat little button in Chromium that instantly 'translates' the page before your very eyes into something almost, but not quite, completely unlike English), it seems to be part of a boar-proof stab vest. Handy in a tight corner, I would have said. Nevertheless, I sincerely hope the future of the planet never depends upon computer translation...

Mike Bishop

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

There are times a stab proof vest might come in handy. I remember a reference in Suetonius where one Emperor (Agustus?) wore armor under his toga to address the Senate. I also believe it was forbidden by law to wear armor in the city of Rome. How specific this would be is conjecture, but a protective vest would have a practical value, especially is some parts of town, probably including Pompei. This would include perhaps places where you would like a bit more of a survival edge but do not want to be conspicious about it. Like wild beast fighting, perhaps.

Genestra is high in cellulose and is currently the raw product used for high tensile strength items that need flexibility, like gloves. It also produces a yellow die. This was occasionally mixed with woad to make a green wool dye.

From the Kamakura until the 1850s a close fitting chest armor called a Hara Ate was worn underneath everyday clothing. It is not exactly invisable under tight clothing but still low profile.

When I was a police officer I was told that jail inmates would sometimes tape newspapers or magazine pages over their torsos or, in some cases, arms before a "shanking" and wear them under prison jumpsuits. Something like this used in an analogical context would leave no trace in the archaeological record.

None of this proves anything of course. It is idle conversation.

Ralph

[Lindsay_Powell]

I think this is one for Raffaele D'Amato and Graham Sumner to comment on.

[john m roberts]

I think it would also make an excellent doormat. Is there some cause to believe that it was armor? Is it cut like a garment? If armor, is it certain that it was for a human and not for, say, a hunting dog? Boar and bear hounds were often armored in the Middle Ages and Renaissance.

[Doc]

Reading the article, they really do not say very much. They mention that genestra has similar strength to linen but is more ductile. They only make a reference that it is or could have been as strong as an anti-projectile vest or jacket. The authors did not conclusivley say it was armor. As Mike pointed out, they made a reference as to it withstanding a boar impaling.

[Endre Fodstad]

Filed under the "possible textile armour/just thick piece of textile" part of my database, alongside the Masada pieces

The picture is not too detailed, but as far as I can see, there is no stitching that would make the piece quilted visible? It would be interesting to see how thick it is. Without quilting, you really need to ramp up the thickness (or use another material to reinforce the piece) for it to function well as armour.

Personally, I've always believed some sort of padded armour must have existed before it appears in the sources - it makes maille so much more effective, for one - and with the amount of trawling people do for it these days in all periods, we'll hopefully turn something up one day! One just have to remember being really critical, so that the desire to see it does not outweigh the more important desire of definite evidence.