Thracian Helmet and Boetian shield

[Fhyn]

Hi folks, I am looking at doing a Greek kit for SCA, and have always loved the look of the Thracian helmet in the pic below, but also love the boetian shields also.

Would it be just way out of context for them both. I know the helmet in the pic is dated 450 - 400 BC, and I thought I had read that the boetian shield might of still been used during the Persian Wars.

Thanks

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Problem is,this helm dates after 400 bc.It is controvertial if the boeotian shild existed at all,after the geometric and early archaic era. Even the supporters of its existance,don't put it after roughly the persian wars. Connolly,i think,has suggested that the Sacred band of thebes might have used the boeotian shield,but he doesn't base this on anything solid! Actually the quite the oposite!
In all,the boeotian shield and this helmet don't go together. So you have either to choose what of the two you fancy more,or decide to be anachronistic,but you have to be knowing that you are not authentic.

In fact,there might be sime depictions of the boeotian shield in vases that date to a time that the early thracian helmet (not the one you posted) have been in use. But it might be significant that the two are never being shown together. Could it be because the boeotian shield represented something of the old times,even if it had been in use some decades before, while the thracian helmet was the last word of fashion? An assumption. And as usually,some Paul will drop a photo here with a hoplite wearing a thracian helmet and carrying a boeotian shield! :mrgreen:
Khaire
Giannis

[Fhyn]

Thanks Giannis.

I had a feeling about that, since I couldnt really dig up anything.

So curious, what style helm would go with the boetian shield, and what style shield would go with the thracian helm?

The large aegis shield would go well with the melee fights I do, but wouldnt go well with the singles fighting I also do, which is why I was looking at the Boetian shield. I know a few guys in the sca, who fight with this style in tourneys. But I know they are doing it for the looks, not for accuracy.

Thanks for the help.

[hoplite14gr]

The period of the "beotian" shiled show two major helmet type
"Illyric" ; http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/SarajevoHelmet01.jpg
or corinthian: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... M_2838.jpg
Hope it helps

Kind regards

[Fhyn]

Thanks Stefanos, would just the large round aegis be what would of been used with the Thracian. I am not sure I have seen any other type of shield being used around that time period with the Thracian helm?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

The large round aspis would have been used,as well as the macedonian pelte, round,hollow shield about 60-70 cm in diameter usually. Rimless most of the times it seems.
Khaire
Giannis

[Fhyn]

Lol, I knew I was using the wrong word for the shield. Thanks for the info.

[hoplite14gr]

in the hellenistic period (after Alexander that is)
A thyreos (Roman type shield) would be combined with the thrakian helm

Kind regards

[Lýsandros]

I have never really noticed before, but it seems your chitoniskos was originally white with red edges, right? Because that strange red-pink colour that you have is exactly the product of first washmachine washing - the red edges coloured the rest of the white fabric.

(Btw, the same happened to my white and green chitoniskos, the white turned to olive )

[hoplite14gr]

Actually to combat the initial "discoloration", Olga had the chiton boiled with onion peels and vinegar. (grandmother to grand daughter recipy)
It gave the amaranth colour like the flower of pikrodafne symbol of Apollo: http://www.valentine.gr/images/oleander1a.jpg

With 100% natural fibers I guess it must be one of the most historically accurate chitons world wide!!!!!!!!!!

Kind regards

[Lýsandros]

So the resulting colour was intended?

[hoplite14gr]

Yes.
According to mother in law who provided the recipe if I wanted more red
I need to put this: http://www.zougla.gr/Image.ashx?fid=857 ... h=300&q=80 boiling together with the onion peels in vinegar.

Normal process is red from madder but the coast was prohibitive and plus everyone has a red chiton.

Kind regards

[Dany Boy]

Looking good Stefanos I like your stile!
My congratulations for this iron helmet which has been adopted by Thracian warriors from Macedonians about I BC.
I don’t know way Deepeeka insist on that name Alexander the grate in their catalogue.
Hope you’ll share some more from this event! :roll:
Thanks

[hoplite14gr]

Well the event took place in Germany at Heunerburg last year.
I had only my chiton anf chlamys as I couldnt pass "weaponry" through airports
so the equipment was kindly loaned to my by the members of the "Hetairoi"

More staff here:
http://hetairoi.de/zenphoto/2009/heuneburg/

Kind regards

[Dany Boy]

Ups!!!! …now I see you are having another kind of helmet on your head! Cool hock:
But you guys know what I was talking about!
About this event, my congratulations to the people who organized this meeting in the heart of Europe!
Hope we’ll be part from this culture reconstruction some day :mrgreen:
Thanks