stirrups and their impact on warfare

[M. Demetrius]

Did we already say that it's possible that using stirrups shortens the training time for the rider? This thread is pretty long. I thought that was one of the conclusions. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Ron Andrea]

Interesting. Please identify your sources as the theory (though not identified as Dr. White's) has wide distribution among low-brow sources, such as Wikipedia. (I know, I know. I never use Wikipedia if it's important, but they're convenient and usually reliable.)

[Rumo]

Interesting. Please identify your sources as the theory (though not identified as Dr. White's) has wide distribution among low-brow sources, such as Wikipedia. (I know, I know. I never use Wikipedia if it's important, but they're convenient and usually reliable.)

Perhaps one of the most famous criticisms of this theory is Bernard Bachrach's. See his article “Charles Martel, mounted shock combat, the stirrup, and
feudalism” in Studies in Medieval and Renaissance History 7 (1970), 47–75.

[Sean Manning]

Interesting. Please identify your sources as the theory (though not identified as Dr. White's) has wide distribution among low-brow sources, such as Wikipedia. (I know, I know. I never use Wikipedia if it's important, but they're convenient and usually reliable.)

I cited the two most important articles earlier in the thread. The Bernard Bachrach one may be hard to find if you don't have a university library handy, but he goes over the history of the theory and why the "Charles Martel adopted the stirrup and reshaped Frankish society to support cavalry" theory has almost no evidence to support it. I've seen at least one book on medieval technology repeat it so its not all Wikipedia's fault. One of the problems with the theory is that it confuses "shock" and "charging with the couched lance" even though many heavy cavalry used other weapons or other grips.

For experiments, I would look up experiments with the Roman four-horned saddle.

[Rumo]

I cited the two most important articles earlier in the thread. The Bernard Bachrach one may be hard to find if you don't have a university library handy, but he goes over the history of the theory and why the "Charles Martel adopted the stirrup and reshaped Frankish society to support cavalry" theory has almost no evidence to support it. I've seen at least one book on medieval technology repeat it so its not all Wikipedia's fault.

Now I see you also mentioned this article. Easier to find perhaps is Kelly De Vries' Medieval Military Technology (1992), see the chapter "The Stirrup, Mounted Shock Combat, Chivalry, and Feudalism". It gives a fair outline of White-Bachrach controversy.

[Ron Andrea]

Good. Thank you.

[MD]

Has anyone seen any studies on horse sizes of the period?

Have you seen [/url] recent thread ?
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The Phd thesis "A biometric study of equids in the Roman world" linked there deals with this topic. The thesis is split in five files, so you have to download:
http://www.york.ac.uk/media/archaeology ... hDvol1.pdf
to
http://www.york.ac.uk/media/archaeology ... hDvol5.pdf