52,000 Roman coins found in Britannia

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38142944/ns ... ws-europe/

In case no one's heard about this I thought it might be of interest. However it may be old news in the U.K. I hoped it was a RAT member who found it.

[Robert Vermaat]

another link

The fact that t coins all date from between AD 253 to AD 293 must point to the ownership, because usually, coins vary much more in tome than just a few decades. The comment that this was not a hoard buried out of fear of a raid because "they would have buried their coins in smaller containers which would have been easier to recover" is nonsensical. You bury something in a hurry, you don't mind how you recover it, only that it's hidden fast! To bury your coins in neat bags instead of a heap also speaks against that.
The suggestion of an "offering of an agricultural community for a good harvest or favorable weather" seems to come from out-of-date schoolbooks, not from the mind of a well-trained archaeologist. Farming communities would usually not have been able to gather coins from such a short timeframe in such huge numbers. This seems more like a government depot, perhaps intended to pay troops or officials. I could not comment on the reason for burial, but usually you bury money because you want to keep it hidden away for a time. Whether it's to remain hidden because nasty Irish types are in the area and you don't want to be found with a fortune of 52.000 coins (or pay the penalty for losing them), or perhaps this was a more common way to stash government money (still being done today - ask your local council) I could not possibly comment.
But the fact that the largest group (85%!!) of coins are from Carausius must be telling us something. My best guess would be that this was intended as a payment for someone. Either Carausius wanted to secure someone services (army, tribes, bribes), or someone managed to hide part of his funds perhaps to secure help against.. Allectus? We know that Allectus also minted coins and the fact that none are present in the hoard must be very telling.

[Conal]

Given recent grave findings I am surprised that this was not seen as Gladitorial prise money :roll:

[Rexor]

Correct me if im wrong.
I saw a Time Team episode where they talk about one find made back in the 60s in England where almost the same cuantity,of coins where found in almost the same condition.
What it was odd was that the coins where aparently buried outside of the town walls -dont remember the name- by the main road.

[Lindsay_Powell]

This extract from a report in The Independent may be of interest:

Since the discovery in late April - which weighed around 160kg - experts from the Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) at the British Museum have been sifting through the coins.
They believe the stash was probably intended as some sort of religious offering, rather than storage for later use.
Sam Moorhead, from the PAS, said: "I don't believe myself that this is a hoard of coins intended for recovery.
"I think what you could see is a community of people who are actually making offerings and they are each pouring in their own contribution to a communal ritual votive offering to the gods."
It is estimated the coins were worth about four years' pay for a legionary soldier.
A selection from the find is on display at the British Museum until mid-August.
* The story of the excavation will be told in a new BBC Two series, Digging for Britain, which will be broadcast next month.
(Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 21429.html )

I would imagine that the BM will keep the best and/or rarest specimens, pay the finder their market value and return the rest to him. Expect to see coins from the 'Frome Hoard' in the dealer trade in the next couple of years, like the Killingholme Hoard ( http://bit.ly/d9pi1g ) or the Braithwell Hoard ( http://bit.ly/cMOH5H ). As a collector myself, and one interested in Carausius and his brothers, I look forward to getting one in my palm. :o

[Epictetus]

Why do they think that it is a religious offering? And more broadly, do we have any evidence that coins were buried as a religious offering?

I glanced through a few sources to try and find such offerings mentioned, but I'm not having any luck. The best I found were some statements from Plutarch. One mentioned tithes to Hercules, and another implied the Romans would not let any offerings to the gods decay except for weapons.

Why is it that of all the things dedicated to the gods it is the custom to allow only spoils of war to disintegrate with the passage of time, and not to move them beforehand nor repair them?

Plutarch, Moralia, Roman Questions #37

If I'm interpreting this correctly this would vaguely support the idea that the coins were not a religious offering. Evidently the Romans didn't want such offerings to "disintegrate with the passage of time" and would "move" them after a time.

[Lindsay_Powell]

@Epictetus: I suspect the assertion that the coins were left as a religious offering is that they were deposited in a great big clay pot - not ideal for transportation given the contents and weight. Just my inference.

[Epictetus]

Yes, I found the same idea in an FT article.

The coins were found in a fragile but well-preserved pot which would have been unable to bear their weight, indicating that it was buried before the coins were tipped into it.

“This shows that whoever buried the hoard probably had no intention of coming back for it,” said Mr Bland. He said the hoard might have been an offering for a good harvest or favourable weather.

Maybe. I'm still a bit cautious. Perhaps the owner didn't have a stronger pot or chest handy because he hadn't planned on burying them and had to do it in a hurry.

I hope that the archeologists have a better reason for concluding it was a religious offering. It just doesn't seem convincing to me. You know, human nature being what it is: if an entire community contributed something to this offering, and everyone knew where it was, I could imagine some less-than-devout person down on his luck would have dug it up. Four years pay for a legionary would be a lot of money.

[Nicholas Gaukroger]

Why do they think that it is a religious offering? And more broadly, do we have any evidence that coins were buried as a religious offering?

Because the assumption of (British) archaeologists appears to be that anything found has some sort of ritual significance - seems to be their first reaction to almost anything hock:

OK, a bit cynical, but it does appear to happen a lot.

[Nearco]

Similar discoveries were made time ago around some rural villae in Extremadura, not so much money but I remember jewelry, familiar busts, and also coins from late roman period found trhown inside a well near the villa. It looks like the owners were in a real hurry when Visigothics were approaching there :|

[Robert Vermaat]

@Epictetus: I suspect the assertion that the coins were left as a religious offering is that they were deposited in a great big clay pot - not ideal for transportation given the contents and weight. Just my inference.

I think that pot was just used for the burial, not for transport. But how that could lead archaeologists to believe that the reason for burial was religious is beyond me.
Besides that, I don't quite see how a common agricultural community managed to exclude coins from much earlier periods and concentrate on the (I think) newest issues of Carausius. That's rather uncommon for hoards, which tend to contain coins from much earlier periods, even if but a small number. This hoard to me looks more like being in ownership of someone connected to the minting process - i.e., someone who had access to 'new' money. Military or civil service.

Or perhaps a banker, on the way to the Cayman Islands perhaps?

[Lindsay_Powell]

Vortigern Studies wrote:
This hoard to me looks more like being in ownership of someone connected to the minting process - i.e., someone who had access to 'new' money. Military or civil service.

... or perhaps someone on Carausius' staff who, on hearing that Allectus had taken over (296AD/CE), decided to beat a hasty retreat west into obscurity and took some cash with him, then buried his stash for reasons unknown. Allectus being an accountant (he had been Carausius' treasurer) could have spotted an irregular withdrawal from his Londinium mint. 52,000 coins would have taken a few weeks to produce.

Speculating the backstory behind archaeological finds is such an absorbing pastime

[Robert Vermaat]

Vortigern Studies wrote:
This hoard to me looks more like being in ownership of someone connected to the minting process - i.e., someone who had access to 'new' money. Military or civil service.

... or perhaps someone on Carausius' staff who, on hearing that Allectus had taken over (296AD/CE), decided to beat a hasty retreat west into obscurity and took some cash with him, then buried his stash for reasons unknown. Allectus being an accountant (he had been Carausius' treasurer) could have spotted an irregular withdrawal from his Londinium mint. 52,000 coins would have taken a few weeks to produce.

My thoughts exactly. And I think they lost a very nice press opportunity here: Treasure of Carausius discovered! :wink:
maybe that's why Allectus had Carausius killed? Did C make a grab in the pension fund? Or was it someone from Leg XX, which we never hear from afterwards - they collectively relocated to a tax haven?

Speculating the backstory behind archaeological finds is such an absorbing pastime

And such fun too!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I'm with you there

[Praefectusclassis]

It is estimated the coins were worth about four years' pay for a legionary soldier

That's rather a clue. I didn't see any mention of the composition of the hoard apart from a mention of a handful of silver coins. If this was worth only 4 years of salary (was it still 300 HS or more by the late 3rd C, I forget?) this would have to be a hoard of small denomination, copper coins. That would make it less likely that this is an official trying to pay someone and more likely that it's a community's savings, wouldn't it?