Shield devices!

[Dithrambus]

:oops: this topic has been previously covered and very well I might add, see the links posted below by: Astiryu1 and Hoplite14gr.

[Astiryu1]

It most undoubtedly will. This is a similar though short post that has sort of died.
link from old RAT

[hoplite14gr]

well if you have the patience to go through it:

<!-- l <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6019&hilit=Greek+shield+emblems">viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6019&hilit=Greek+shield+emblems<!-- l


There is an exageration of "personal emblem"

An emblem is deciphered from pottery/coinage and literary evidence.

Example Aegina:

[Astiryu1]

The "Fly" on the Spartan shield often spoken of. 8)

[Dithrambus]

I followed the link you posted Stefanos and it appears you guys have covered this subject in great detail, your knowledge of shield devices is quite impressive to say the least!

Youi will forgive me, I am new to R.A.T. and I have not had time to view all of the previously covered topics.

[Astiryu1]

That's why we posted links!

I ran into the same issue when I first started. No worries it is understandable.

[Dithrambus]

Thanks for the moral support Craig!

I will try to come up with a 'fresh topic' for my next posting.

[hoplite14gr]

I believe there are no authorities in Archeology.

A small pottery fragment from an obscure place that can be published can make change the whole basis of my research.

The shield device is not just heraldry. It served a military purpose. "Idendification Friend From Foe".

Plutrach's anecdote about the "life size fly" does not tell us what else was on the shield.

Deleo blunder combat can be explained very easily.

What chances are for recognizing two different emblems on black background when the shields are covered in blood and dust or mud.

Compare that with the term "friendly fire" in modern armies.

Kind regards

[Dithrambus]

In Steven Pressfield's book 'Tides of war', he describes an Athenian retreat, which happens at nightfall in which the retreating Athenians run into their own comrades and are mistaken for the enemy (Brutal!!).

Stefanos, I would like to know your opinion on the use of the Lakedaemonian or 'lambda' shield device; used at the time of Thermoplylae or not? Some scholars such as the esteemed Prof Paul Cartledge insist that it was, while others conclude that since it does not appear in the literary reference until the mid to late fifth century, that it was not, still others claim that it was not used by Spartiates at all and was only 'state issued' to Messenian, Lakonian helots and Perioeci for identification purposes.

Please accept my apology in advance if you have already covered this.

Thanks

[hoplite14gr]

There was a distinction between Homioi and Perioikoi in the Spartan Army both Herodotus and Thukidides mention it.
I suspect color code on shields but I have indications not full proof

The Spartan "L" and other "city state monograms" like -for example- Atheninan "A" and Sikyonian "S" are documented in literature coinage and pottery from 418 B.C.
Reasons range between fashion and lack of funds after the civil wars.

One example of a controversial interpretation of Athenian "A" dated in 6th century B.C. exists in the Benaki museum.
But it depicts hoplite race so it might be training shields belonging to the city(??)

Kind regards

[Dithrambus]

I have seen three examples: 1. white lambda on red backgroud 2. white lambda on black background 3. red lambda on black background.

Not sure about the historical reference of these colors, or their intended meaning. Do you have an opinion on this?

[hoplite14gr]

It was article by my and G. Iliopoulos in "ISTORIKES SELIDES" magazine DEC 2009.
When did it made it international?
We suggested that initially there was distinction between Brasidas troops and Neodamodeis
and probably Homioi and Perioikoi.
Then Spartans decided one L so that the enemy is kept in the dark.

Kind regards

[Dithrambus]

I actually saw the color shemes that I mentioned on a poster/print that I believe was titled: 'Shields of Sparta' (could be wrong about that) If I remember correctly the lambda devices were assigned to divisions of Perioikoi, the poster also depicted the 'solar pattern' of Spartan royalty and several other devices. Not sure who created the poster though.

[hoplite14gr]

You probably mean that one:
http://www.300spartanwarriors.com/300sp ... ryart.html

Poster was created by Nikos Panos under our directions.
As for the "L" please tell me if you need elaporation on my previous posts.

kind regards

[Dithrambus]

I did not realize that Nikos Panos was the artist who created the poster, I have seen a couple of his prints which I do admire: 'Thermopylae phalanx' and 'Greek warriors of Marathon' are very compelling images.

I believe you have covered the subject of the 'Lambda' device very well.

Thanks