Thespian shield device

[Dithrambus]

"If you come on the scene without having studied, would you be an Improv Thespian?"

LOL, good one David!

Actually I feel a bit like an 'Improv Thespian', I thought I had done my homework on the topic of Thespian shield devices, however Stefanos has presented me with two more choices that I had somehow overlooked in my research, the man is a expert when it comes to Greek heraldry.

[hoplite14gr]

I am not a genius.
I simply dare to challenge established orthodoxy on the matter.

There are many example of "irregular" armies adopting a "common" emblem.
So why it is denied for the "regular" armies of ancient Greece?

If you bring the subject to men with military service they are positive on the idea.

Kind regards

[Astiryu1]

In basic training we were told to come up with a mascot/slogan for each training platoon to instill pride in the units. We became the "Widow Makers" with a Black Widow spider as an Icon. Kind of strange for a bunch of guys but it worked! Psychology I don't think has changed much in any military as we are all still human. Units agreeing on an Icon reflects attitude of soldiers more than anything else to me.

[hoplite14gr]

Exactly Craig.

In my recon unit each squadron had its animal: "Eagles", "Lions", "Panthers", "Hawks"

I for got also to mention Carl Jung's "Man and his symbols" as good guide in such matters

Kind regards

[Dithrambus]

"If the hoplite belonged to a family with priestly duties white with a red edging is appropriate (priests were hereditary in Ancient Greece)"

This color appeals to me on a personal level, my father is a minister/missionary, my grandfather and great grandfather were also ministers and I have worked in my fathers ministry at various times over the years.

Should the chiton and cloak both consist of these colors?

Also, do you or anyone else have any suggestions for a supplier of these items? I have found one 'Greek tunic' offered by Windlass Steelcrafts sold at several online stores, but it is only available in two sizes and one color.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

No accurate greek chiton in the market. there are many threads here in RAT that guide you on how to make your own chiton,in a variety of styles. It's really easy in fact.
Khaire
Giannis

[Dithrambus]

Thank you for your reply Giannis, I did notice in the other threads that many have made their own and I am impressed with the results, not sure if this is within my very limited creative abilities :| Obviously the originals were handmade and it would not hurt to purchase some material and experiment I guess, actually I did not care for the one by Windlass anyway, besides being the wrong color for my purpose it has a neat or 'store-bought' look and bears little resemblance to those depicted in vase paintings etc.

[hoplite14gr]

If your local cloth store has linen or pure wool of 1.5 meter width then a fully grown man needs 2,5 meters for a "doric" chiton.
Yes color consistency white-red would be OK for priestly families.
Kind regards

[Dithrambus]

Stefanos, your advice has been invaluable to me concerning these last few items for my panoply (shield emblem, chiton etc) and I thank you for that!

[M. Demetrius]

Here is a good source for 100% linen in the US. It comes from Ukraine, but they import it and take care of all that mundane customs, inspection, etc. stuff, and still offer pretty good prices.
Fabrics-store.com
Here, you can get some good 100% wool, in various colors.
http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/catal ... px?TypID=5
http://www.bblackandsons.com/

In either case, wool or linen, if you stick with a solid color, there is very little sewing involved in making a chiton. Basically, all you really have to do is something to keep the raw edges from unravelling if you put the cut edge at the top and bottom. Since most of these fabrics are around 59" wide, you can use the factory edge at top and bottom. and just sew up the tube on the sides. Not much to that. If you need some pointers on sewing, PM me and I'll tell you what I know. :wink: Heck, I could tell you everything I know and it wouldn't take very long. :roll:

Hope that helps.

[Dithrambus]

Thanks for the info David, however you may regret the offer to help, I have a lot of questions! :? lol

[hoplite14gr]

Another Thespian shield example:

[Dithrambus]

Thank you Stefanos,

Always good to have options!

[Paullus Scipio]

As I have repeatedly pointed out on threads elsewhere, there is no evidence whatsoever for "Ancient Greek Heraldry", and none for "Clan" or "city" designs during the Persian Wars.( other than the later 'letters' such as the famous lambda for Sparta, or trident for Mantinea etc)

At the time of Thermopylae it is all but certain that shield designs carried by Thespians would have been as individualised as other contemporary Greek Warriors shields seem to have been. All else is pure speculation, and we simply have no real evidence or knowledge. To continue to advocate a 'speculative' Heraldry is dangerous, because as the designs are copied and spread, the speculative origin becomes lost and the facts blurred and 'speculation' becomes 'fact' in the eyes of many - a 'myth' which is difficult to eradicate........

A good example is the idea that Thespians wore black cloaks. The source for this ( as I have related here on RAT before, yet it still persists! lol: :lol: :lol:

The vase Stefanos has presented does not in fact definitely show a Thespian at all. The association is circular. Having speculated that Thespians supposedly used a moon design, a depiction of a moon design is therefore Thespian !

The vase is an ATTIC red-figure style for a start, and post-Persian wars in date ( a deduction based on style, since Stefanos did not supply the details of it)