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The Inevitable Football Topic
#16
How about that Italy game? I think the Italians this time were not like their predecessors. This World Cup they are faster, hungrier to win, and campared to Paraguay, more techincal. However, they could not put three passes together to make or creat a dangerous play/action. With all the dominance throughout the game, Italy could not finish. This makes my first and second sentance opposite I realize. However, for those of you who follow football, I am sure you understand.

They played ok but they really need to figure out what to do. If they play with a team that is just as technical and fast but could put a few passes together, it will be the end.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)


Paolo
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#17
Quote:How about that Italy game? I think the Italians this time were not like their predecessors. This World Cup they are faster, hungrier to win, and campared to Paraguay, more techincal. However, they could not put three passes together to make or creat a dangerous play/action. With all the dominance throughout the game, Italy could not finish. This makes my first and second sentance opposite I realize. However, for those of you who follow football, I am sure you understand.

They played ok but they really need to figure out what to do. If they play with a team that is just as technical and fast but could put a few passes together, it will be the end.

Then again, hasn`t Italy always started the tournaments like this?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
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#18
Jyrki,

That is true. However, Italy's group is in an interesting predicament. They all tied.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)


Paolo
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#19
FIFA had 36 Dutch women arrested by the local police because they wore orange dresses made by Bavaria brewery. FIFA claimed this was an ad campaign against 'their' official beer sponsor, Budweiser.
The women were manhandled, some were covered in bruises. They were held in police cells for a few hours.

Are they crazy!!!???!! :x x x x
How come that a sports organisation has any control over the local law enforcement, so that innocent people are arrested and manhandled???
The should have sent their lawyers to the court and claim compensation from Bavaria. How come that South Africa gives an organisation power to arrest people who have done NOTHING wrong under South African law?

Apparently FIFA is so powerful that it can take over a sovereign nation. Or maybe South Africa still behaves as if it is a colony. sad, very sad indeed.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#20
I have just seen the news report....the girls seem to have been simply wearing plain orange dresses - with no overt advertising on, and certainly nothing that might be seen in a crowd. Not only were they roughly ejected from the stadium, they were held in jail for the maximum possible time ( 12 hours!! ) before being released. ( After 12 hours, a person has to be charged with an offence or released - obviously no criminal offence was committed, and the police couldn't 'trump one up' either)

O.K.....naughty 'Bavaria', but this is a curt reminder that sport isn't sport any more - "its about the money, stupid !". .......and after that, politics. South Africa seems to be going down the usual road for African countries, epitomised by Zimbabwe, so on the "Bread and Circuses" principle they waste a vast amount of money badly needed elsewhere on showcasing this entirely commercial event !!
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#21
Quote:FIFA had 36 Dutch women arrested by the local police because they wore orange dresses made by Bavaria brewery. FIFA claimed this was an ad campaign against 'their' official beer sponsor, Budweiser.
Of course the response was over the top, but at the same time: as long as it's efficient -everybody now knows the name Bavaria- we will see this type of guerilla marketing. The arrest of the girls was a calculated risk, and the girls have been incredibly naive.

Meanwhile, for something completely different: the dive of the day!
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#22
Too bad that North Korean goalie blew that first goal... if they could have managed a draw, Brazil would have risked getting knocked out because Portugal and Ivory Coast are in their group. That would have been hilarious Big Grin

Must be nice for you folks across the pond; over here, all the games are on in the morning when I'm busy.
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#23
I disagree Robert that this is sad. It is actually SICK.

Maybe that is why the well known American comedian, George Carlin, said that he cannot wait for certain new sports events to come out so that Budweiser can smere their logo feces on it.
This answers your question about what Budweiser is all about.
"You have to laugh at life or else what are you going to laugh at?" (Joseph Rosen)


Paolo
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#24
I enjoyed the North Korea - Brazil game. I thought it would be a blowout (I predicted 5 - 0), but the North Koreans really hung in there. They played a bit unorthodox as well, so it was fun to watch.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#25
Quote:I disagree Robert that this is sad. It is actually SICK.
Maybe that is why the well known American comedian, George Carlin, said that he cannot wait for certain new sports events to come out so that Budweiser can smere their logo feces on it.
This answers your question about what Budweiser is all about.
I don't blame Bud, I blame FIFA for reacting complely over the top, as our foreign office rightly remarked. FIFA should have gone after the beer company, not after the women, who were released after hours of detaention, but later re-arrest while in their hotel, all 36 of them. I since heard that they were released on bail, and have to appear before a judge on tuesday.
I wonder what charges the police brought against them, since they broke no South African law. Or it must be a new law that forbids anyone to 'deploy commercial activity inside a stadium', no doubt a change in the law made under pressure from FIFA. Why did FIFA refrain from forcing the country to obey their overlordship is beyond me, I think mr Blatter missed a real opportunity here. Maybe they can be brought before a FIFA trial with a FIFA judge in session. Maybe FIFA also has a jail in some other coutry they bribed? :evil:
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#26
Quote:I wonder what charges the police brought against them, since they broke no South African law.
They in fact broke a law. If you have a house, a shop, a club, or a stadium, you can make house regulations. If someone else decides to visit the house, the shop, the club, or the stadium, he or she is expected to follow those rules. If he or she doesn't, you can ask the police; it's violation of your home. That is the law that in this case applies.

Example: if someone visits my school, and if he is drunk, I first suggest friendly that he leaves; if he doesn't, I summon him officially; if he still doesn't leave, I can ask the police. The owner of the house, or the one who is put in charge by the owner, has almost absolute rights. I can summon someone to go even without explaining why. (As you read between the lines, this example is authentic.)

So, FIFA is perfectly entitled to intervene when its house rules are violated. Especially when there is a very strong suspicion that (a) people entered their stadium with the intention of creating trouble and (b) this is done for material gain. The fact that no brand name was shown, is irrelevant; many advertising campaigns are based on indirect association - think of the "Camel Trophee" advertisements: no one is fooled that that's an advertisement for a rally, everyone knows it's for cigarettes.

This leaves only the question: why arresting the girls? Well, that's quite simple: because they cannot arrest the Bavaria directors, who are cowardly in Holland, and have not yet decided to go to Johannesburg themselves and defend the people who have so foolishly put themselves into trouble. Besides, this may be strategy: get the information first, find out who is involved. Watergate started with the trial of the burglars, not the president himself.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
My website
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#27
Spanish cavalry stopped by Swiss pikemen.
--- Marcus F. ---
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#28
Quote:
Vortigern Studies:2l6gpxut Wrote:I wonder what charges the police brought against them, since they broke no South African law.
They in fact broke a law.

Which is what I inferred in the next line. :wink:

Quote:If you have a house, a shop, a club, or a stadium, you can make house regulations. If someone else decides to visit the house, the shop, the club, or the stadium, he or she is expected to follow those rules. If he or she doesn't, you can ask the police; it's violation of your home. That is the law that in this case applies.
No, it's not because that's not what happened. The FIFA stewards escorted the women from the stadium, without any hassle. They did not refuse to leave, and the police were not involved. Homerules were observed. No home was violated.

However, FIFA called the police and the women were arrested afterwards. FIFA made a complaint about the women apparently brteaking that law I mentioned, about commecial activities. You could still call that 'fact-finding' I suppose, prior to FIFA making a complaint in a court against Bavaria. After which, one would expect, FIFA would make a claim in court against Bavaria.

FIFA didn't. They made a complaint against the women. Which is interesting, because everybody realises that this is about FIFA and Bavaria, because Bavaria hired the women. Yet FIFA sets the police on the women. After holding all of them for hours and manhandling some, they are released.

Apparently, only the 2 Dutch women, paid by Bavaria and supposedly the 'ringleaders', are then arrested again in their hotel, locked up again and only released on bail (minus passports) prior to the court session on the 22nd, being warned that the maximum penalty is 6 months in jail. Which, of course, is for people who brake this law massively, not for wearing an orange dress, and therefore can only be described as bullying.

Quote:So, FIFA is perfectly entitled to intervene when its house rules are violated.

Oh sure they are, and then they react with what can only be called 'completely over the top' force. But why the South Afrucan police complies with this farce is beyond me. Not what one would expect from a developed nation and a democracy, as South Africa views itself.

Quote:This leaves only the question: why arresting the girls? Well, that's quite simple: because they cannot arrest the Bavaria directors, who are cowardly in Holland, and have not yet decided to go to Johannesburg themselves and defend the people who have so foolishly put themselves into trouble. Besides, this may be strategy: get the information first, find out who is involved. Watergate started with the trial of the burglars, not the president himself.
Of course it's strategy, since every time this hits the news the name Bavaria is mentioned, and they get invaluable airtime. Which was the intention all along and FIFA stupidly fell for it. For instead of whisking the women away with a stern warning and a sending a claim to bavaria, they wanted to show they were bosss in Africa. How very colonial.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#29
A similar thing happened at a USGP in Indianapolis. Bernie Ecclestone had Fosters as Formula 1's official beer. However, Budweiser decided to fly a blimp over the track. Ecclestone was incensed, but Tony George, the owner of the circuit, decided that the airspace above the track was a public area and nothing could be done. I suppose if Budweiser had sent advertising into the track grounds they could have prosecuted or something.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#30
Three things:

- That Mexican guy was waaaaay offside on that first goal against France.

- I feel bad for the South Africans; Group A is pretty tough top to bottom. There isn't an outstanding team, but France, Uruguay and Mexico are all good.

- Argentina just flattened a South Korean team that seemed pretty good before today.
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