06-27-2002, 02:21 PM
Hi Flavius,<br>
<br>
My memory still insists that the real advances in agriculture happened after, not before the black death. Can't remember where I read this, though. And I don't think we mean the same thing when talking about "church control".<br>
<br>
So I still think it's a good theory. Of course its very simple right now, but I'm pretty sure that if I were to write 400 more pages about it, I could make it sound very convincing. <br>
<br>
Anyway, enough on that. As mentioned, my "theory" was thrown out on the spur of the moment and without any vetting of the facts other than from memory - so don't take it seriously. <br>
<br>
The main reason why I haven't bothered getting hold of Carnage and Culture is mainly because from what I've read, the core of his hypothesis - in my opinion - is completely false. "Western" culture of today (if such a thing can even be identified - there's a heck of a lot of difference btw e.g., danish culture and America) is extremely far removed from the Greek culture that Hanson adores.<br>
<br>
"Western Way of War" was the first of his books I read. Very, very interesting, but ultimately flawed (1- his model of hoplite fighting is just one among many, the other models will not support his basic premise, 2- has he ever heard of Assyria; developer of close-formation infantry, combined arms, and psychologocial warfare; and as undemocratic a state as one can imagine? Evidently not). Still, I liked his ideas enough to read "Soul of Battle" which, IMO, is pure claptrap. Builds on the flawed ideas of WWoW, and then adds even more flawed ideas. In general, it sounds like "Carnage and Culture" continues this trend.<br>
<br>
Flavius wrote:<br>
<b><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> Interestingly, one of these 'Neo-Nazi/White Power' reviewers cites Hanson's book as a 'better' analysis.<hr><br>
<br>
This is another of the reasons why I haven't bothered to consider placing the book on my reading list prior to now. It may not be the effect he intends, but I see his theories being very easy to pervert for "Cultural Imperialism" and simmilar things ODE EM . I don't mind that he writes what he does, but his absolute conviction that he is right and his lack of ability to address contradicting evidence properly (the comment in the review I posted above "Citizen soldier states win even when they lose" is a typical Hanson-ism, IMO ) is supremely irritating, and has lowered my estimation of him considerably.<br>
<br>
The Hanson book that is coming out later this year "An Autumn of War: What America Learned from September 11 and the War on Terrorism", looks set to continue this trend. From the (positive) reviews I've read about this books, I'm only left with one burning question: how is Hanson's literary work, justifying American policy by drawing parrallels to the glories of Classical Greek civilization any different from 1930s Italian literary work, justifying Italian fascism by drawing parrallels to the glories of Roman civilization? (Note, I have no intention of equating American policy with fascism - but I do think that Hanson's works are beginning to approach border-line idealogical propaganda rather than sober scientific/philosophical thought). <p>Strategy<br>
Designer/Developer<br>
Imperium - Rise of Rome</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ustrategym.showPublicProfile?language=EN>StrategyM</A> at: 6/27/02 5:39:48 pm<br></i>
<br>
My memory still insists that the real advances in agriculture happened after, not before the black death. Can't remember where I read this, though. And I don't think we mean the same thing when talking about "church control".<br>
<br>
So I still think it's a good theory. Of course its very simple right now, but I'm pretty sure that if I were to write 400 more pages about it, I could make it sound very convincing. <br>
<br>
Anyway, enough on that. As mentioned, my "theory" was thrown out on the spur of the moment and without any vetting of the facts other than from memory - so don't take it seriously. <br>
<br>
The main reason why I haven't bothered getting hold of Carnage and Culture is mainly because from what I've read, the core of his hypothesis - in my opinion - is completely false. "Western" culture of today (if such a thing can even be identified - there's a heck of a lot of difference btw e.g., danish culture and America) is extremely far removed from the Greek culture that Hanson adores.<br>
<br>
"Western Way of War" was the first of his books I read. Very, very interesting, but ultimately flawed (1- his model of hoplite fighting is just one among many, the other models will not support his basic premise, 2- has he ever heard of Assyria; developer of close-formation infantry, combined arms, and psychologocial warfare; and as undemocratic a state as one can imagine? Evidently not). Still, I liked his ideas enough to read "Soul of Battle" which, IMO, is pure claptrap. Builds on the flawed ideas of WWoW, and then adds even more flawed ideas. In general, it sounds like "Carnage and Culture" continues this trend.<br>
<br>
Flavius wrote:<br>
<b><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> Interestingly, one of these 'Neo-Nazi/White Power' reviewers cites Hanson's book as a 'better' analysis.<hr><br>
<br>
This is another of the reasons why I haven't bothered to consider placing the book on my reading list prior to now. It may not be the effect he intends, but I see his theories being very easy to pervert for "Cultural Imperialism" and simmilar things ODE EM . I don't mind that he writes what he does, but his absolute conviction that he is right and his lack of ability to address contradicting evidence properly (the comment in the review I posted above "Citizen soldier states win even when they lose" is a typical Hanson-ism, IMO ) is supremely irritating, and has lowered my estimation of him considerably.<br>
<br>
The Hanson book that is coming out later this year "An Autumn of War: What America Learned from September 11 and the War on Terrorism", looks set to continue this trend. From the (positive) reviews I've read about this books, I'm only left with one burning question: how is Hanson's literary work, justifying American policy by drawing parrallels to the glories of Classical Greek civilization any different from 1930s Italian literary work, justifying Italian fascism by drawing parrallels to the glories of Roman civilization? (Note, I have no intention of equating American policy with fascism - but I do think that Hanson's works are beginning to approach border-line idealogical propaganda rather than sober scientific/philosophical thought). <p>Strategy<br>
Designer/Developer<br>
Imperium - Rise of Rome</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/ustrategym.showPublicProfile?language=EN>StrategyM</A> at: 6/27/02 5:39:48 pm<br></i>
