Frank Miller\'s 300 -- The Prequel

[Ghostmojo]

I like Frank Miller's stuff. But you have to take it for what it is - a comic book tradition of reimagining history along the lines of the superhero mould.

How can we "reimagine" history? History is the relation of fact to the writer's best ability, and writing fiction of the superhero mold is something else entirely. It's fantasy, and that does not equate with fact.

Whoever said it did?

But reimagining is what it has been dubbed, and 'reimagining' is what it is ... I never said it was a retelling and nor do I attach any moral value to it - one way or the other. It is a sub-genre artform or cultural medium all of its own ...

When a young person reads something like Miller's twaddle, he or she is left with the impression that an outsized hero or twisted humanoid might be a historical person. The 300 was disgusting enough, Zemeckis' Beowulf was a total barf-ride; and the saddest fact is this stuff is obviously becoming more and more popular. "Hollywood history" has always been inaccurate but it just gets worse. And in the end, we're going to have an entire generation which has no idea of what history actually was.:neutral:

I think you are somewhat missing the point. If you read any of my other posts regarding Hollywood and 'history' - I think you will see that we are singing from the same hymn sheet. However, I would think most people would be able to differentiate between a proper attempt to portray historic events and using an historic event as a jumping off point for a fantasy reinterpretation. If they cannot - they are unlikely to make much headway in the study and appreciation of history!:lol: After all - Beowolf isn't history anyway ...

Besides, isn't there a long tradition of history getting mixed up with myth and fantasy? At the roots of both King Arthur and Robin Hood there may well be something 'historical' no matter how vague or small - but nobody would ever suggest their well-known stories are anything other than continually embroidered fantasy for the most part.

Miller could argue he is merely doing what the Greeks did themselves - taking a story and spinning and respinning it in the retelling - and so the thing becomes bigger and more fantastical. Fortunately, the counter to this exists because there is so much documentary evidence and historic commentary around regarding the real Thermopylai encounter and the real Leonidas I.

We shouldn't worry that a certain genre exists within the comic industry that allows this fantasy to spin out. It may well encourage its readers to pursue the real story as well. I like Miller's work. I think it is imaginiative. I would personally rather see the telling of these stories done in accurate fashion - but I think there is room for both ...

[Dan D'Silva]

However, I would think most people would be able to differentiate between a proper attempt to portray historic events and using an historic event as a jumping off point for a fantasy reinterpretation.

I'm sure most people could if they bothered, what I'm not sure of is whether they do. All I know is there's an unsettling amount of naïveté out there. There are quite a few people who already believed there really were only 300 Greeks and a million Persians at Thermopylai.

Miller could argue he is merely doing what the Greeks did themselves - taking a story and spinning and respinning it in the retelling - and so the thing becomes bigger and more fantastical.

Well, but the Greeks tended to portray their enemies (and themselves) pretty accurately, just exaggerating the scale of things, at least from what I've seen. About the only artistic license that comes to mind is heroes fighting au naturel.

[Gaius Colletti]

Its funny I ran into this thread, I was just having a chat with a friend of mine who is a movie fanatic. We debated about people's interest in a historically accurate movie, to which he decreed that no one would want to see a flat out historical movie, and if they did, they would just watch s sort of documentary. Movies like Gladiator and 300, and shows like Spartacus or ROME at least spark an interest in history, and like Magnus said get people interested in real history.

I am a member of 'TheRPF' (Replica Prop Forum) and they have a huge section on "Replica Costumes" and when people make a gladiator or Roman officer costume, I always cringe when they say "The helmet and armor is made of fiberglass" ...Just saying that gives me the shivers

[Dithrambus]

Its funny I ran into this thread, I was just having a chat with a friend of mine who is a movie fanatic. We debated about people's interest in a historically accurate movie, to which he decreed that no one would want to see a flat out historical movie, and if they did, they would just watch s sort of documentary. Movies like Gladiator and 300, and shows like Spartacus or ROME at least spark an interest in history, and like Magnus said get people interested in real history.

I am a member of 'TheRPF' (Replica Prop Forum) and they have a huge section on "Replica Costumes" and when people make a gladiator or Roman officer costume, I always cringe when they say "The helmet and armor is made of fiberglass" ...Just saying that gives me the shivers

Yes, a film should be entertaining and a certain amount of dramatization is to be expected, otherwise one may as well watch a documentary. Some films just go too far to the extreme and completely ignore history.

[Ghostmojo]

Let's not forget that 300 has some decidedly Tolkienesque images in it - Orc-like giants and weird fantastical/prehistoric beasties. I can't believe anybody would think that stuff actually eminates from the pages of Herodotos ...

Miller is doing a Homer - a touch of the mythological monsters

[Dan Howard]

I am a member of 'TheRPF' (Replica Prop Forum) and they have a huge section on "Replica Costumes" and when people make a gladiator or Roman officer costume, I always cringe when they say "The helmet and armor is made of fiberglass" ...Just saying that gives me the shivers

I don't have a problem with plastic and fibreglass. You can't expect a girly actor to be running around all day in metal armour If an attempt is made to make the costumes look realistic then I'm fine. Weta made mail armour from PVC tubing for Lord of the Rings and it looked fine. They had metal armour for the closeups. The armour costumes in many "historical" movies can be fixed a great deal simply by having less leather and more metal. Shiny metal. Look at Excalibur for inspiration. It doesn't have to be steel and bronze. Aluminium and painted fibreglass is fine so long as the appearance is realistic.

[Brent Nielsen]

You guys sound pretty hard core! I enjoyed Frank Miller's comic 300 and the movie, but I understood it for what it was from the start...a comic book with some sci fi rhinos. I did appreciate the historical quotes even though most (except for 'fighting in the shade') were uttered by other Spartans during the Pelopenisian war. I also enjoyed the unit drill and shield work, and the Sam Pekinpah flavor to the slow mo fight scenes. Mr. Kane's Forgotten Legion is a very accurate interpretation of life in the Roman Republic with (by his own admission) a preposterous theme of Roman POW's marching east to serve as border guards and eventually fighting elephants on the borders of India! I DON'T CARE! It is still a great (part one + two) F___g book that has me counting spare change to go get part three! My FIRST SPEAR Rudimenta hasn't taken off as I thought, possibly because of TOO MUCH (?) technical history. All my readers liked it but complained of the Latin. I am hoping that by realing in the Latin phrases (even though Bernard Cornall does the same thing with ancient Saxon) the sequel will do better. I would appreciate some input. Mr. Kane recommends you guys highly!

[Macedon II]

I study history for decades fanatically and I like to think of me as a man with an eye for details which many might think cumbersome to occupy with. Yet, movies are not supposed to be documentaries, even the latter are full of mistakes and misinformation. I loved "the 300", it is one of my favorite movies of all times. I hate it when the story is twisted, like they did in "Troy". A common joke among Greeks for Troia [= Troy (pronounced in Greek Treea which is a homophone to the number three) is that "This movie was not Three (Troy), it was Four (Tessera)". I did not like "Alexander" as a film, I found it too lukewarm for my taste, although they did a darn good job with the props and clothes. Yet, "the 300" was a masterpiece. Of course the Persians did not employ Orc, the Immortals were no Ninja, there were no armored rhinos nor Oliphants (these beasts were humongous for elephants, which of course also were not used...). BUT the script was as if I was reading Herodot... Yes, Ephialtes was not "the crimson of a Spartan", the story back in Sparta was totally imaginary but within reason but the dialogues and the feeling to me were right there! I felt as if I was seeing this battle from the eyes of a Spartan warrior (this was the point of the comic and movie after all). The mythical size of Xerxes' army, the countless nations in his army (which accounted for the "monsters" in the movie, do not forget that many Greeks believed that there were races of deformed humans in such exotic places, so they expected to see them), how would an elephant look to someone who had never seen one if not twice as large and fierce (and yes there were no elephants in Xerxes' train but stories surely would exist about strange animals among his entourage)? Imagine what stories there would have been about the Immortals, about the God king himself (I liked when in Braveheart,an even less historical in terms of the script movie, some warriors expected Wallace to be a giant "farting" lightningbolts...:mrgreen: :mrgreen.

I think that too many have made too much out of the artistic approach in this film. I found it totally appealing and interesting. I also liked the combat scenes, it is the first time I saw a film giving the spirit of an ordered phalanx so well. Of course none of us would agree that an actual hoplite phalanx would act like the 300 in the movie did, but it was interesting to see the approach the film had on the subject. Yes there was also heroic single combat, but it was done during what we would call pursue (even if some Persians were shown running towards the Spartans instead of away...).

In conclusion, to me "the 300" was a great film, which should be not criticized as we would a documentary but more like a work of art. Is there anyone there who would not squeal if we had Gods fighting alongside the Greeks in a movie about Marathon? Who would not curse the director if we saw lightning bolts hitting at the Gaulish hordes in Southern Greece? Yet, if one would abide by the sources, then such scenes would be only following the story...

George - Macedon (when the system allows me to log in normally...)

[Marcus F.]

I'm only waiting for the comments on "Immortal":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68NXUDwlb...ure=relmfu

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

Even Percy Jackson and the Lightning Thief was better than that.

[Narukami]

In 3D ... of course.

3D ... Bah!
:x :-x :mad:

Narukami

[Narukami]

More news on the sequel to Zack Snyder's film of FRank Miller's 300:


This from io9:

300: Rise of an Empire
Xerxes actor Rodrigo Santoro describes his preparations for returning to the role in Smart People director Noam Murro's sequel:

"I had to shave, I had to work out again, I had to go back to Xerxes. It's the same character. There's little new things—a little before, a little after—but most of the movie, it's during… kind of the same time where the first movie takes place. There's a lot going on. It's hard, the green screen, it's a different way of working. It's really challenging to work that way and the character wears a lot and Xerxes is a giant. He's almost not human, which is a poetic license. It comes from a graphic novel so it's not based in real history, so that character is very very tall and his voice is like thunder and that's the description of this character. So there's a couple special FX and tricks that have to be done to accomplish that figure so I do scenes by myself. It's interesting, it's a lot of work."

You can watch the entire video interview with Santoro at the link. [Coming Soon]

:|

Narukami

[richard robinson]

I also liked 300
I liked the fight scenes and slow mo (it resonates for me).
I enjoyed the historical quotes.
THEN
I saw the graphic novel and yes, it is 100 per cent authentic accurate to the novel, so alls fair enough!

still, I really hope that gates of Fire gets made

regards
mm

[Narukami]

Warner Brothers has announced a release date for the sequel to 300 -- August 2, 2013.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/03/the-hang...rner-bros/

Additionally, here is some info on the cast:

http://www.deadline.com/2012/02/jamie-bl...00-sequel/


:wink:

Narukami