The "Fred thread": the Argead Macedonian Army

[Paullus Scipio]

Oh, dear, this just won't lay down and die will it? It belongs in a thread of its own;"The Murder of Cleitus". There we could discuss the 'Cluedo' like possibilities at length ( "it was a somatophylake with a longche indoors"...."no it wasn't, others say it was a 'guard' with a sarissa outdoors..."). In any event, it tells us nothing about 'Hypaspist' armament.....

You yourself raised this question - sorry - digression. The armamnet of the hypaspists has, in fact, been part of this thread the "pre-Philip army" has not

Eh? You are the one who raised this 'non-evidence' in respect of 'Hypaspist' armament ! :?
Just two small points:
1. Arrian here doesn't write or use the word "Hypaspist" together with 'sarissa'. Why not? Perhaps he knew 'Hypaspists' didn't use such a weapon......
2. Arrian has Alexander shouting out, apparently in fear for his life, calling for the 'Guard"=Hypaspists? ( in another source "in the Macedonian dialect", IIRC) No-one answers or comes - which implies a) the 'Guards/Hypaspists?' were out of earshot.
b) The 'Guard' at the door ( why at the door? Nothing in the sources about this - but of course a guard indoors couldn't realistically be carrying a 16 ft sarissa could he? Hence the supposition he was 'at the door'.) can't have been a 'Hypaspist' because he doesn't reply/come to Alexander, who is yelling 'murder!' or similar at the top of his voice, and calling for his 'Guard/Hypaspists?! ( If it were so, there could be any number of reasons for this - was he deaf for example - but it does damage the credibility of this version of events. If there was any sort of 'guard' at the door, whatever he was armed with, why didn't he respond to his King?)

Nor does the 'ordinary guard' have to be a Hypaspist. By way of analogy, consider that I have personally witnessed the "Royal Fusiliers", the "Royal Marines", the "Royal Air Force Regiment" and a 'foreign' regiment, "The Royal Australian Regiment" mount the guard at Buckingham palace. None of these belong to the "Guards Division". Every year, non-Guard units form the Monarch's guard at times. So why couldn't an 'ordinary guard' in the form of a regular 'sarissaphoroi' from one of the ordinary 'Taxeis' have been guarding Alexander at the time? No 'real stretch' at all.......

Like Arrian, we just don't know, and have no way of telling......

If you want to continue debating the armament of the 'Hypaspists', address the iconography and archaeological evidence, please.....

The armamnet of the hypaspists has, in fact, been part of this thread the "pre-Philip army" has not.

Sorry, I thought the subject of this thread ( apart from Fred! :wink: ) was the "Argead Macedonian Army"? The Argeads trace their ancestry back to Herakles, so we could presumably discuss the Makedones in the Trojan war ! hock: hock: :lol:

However, I realise that in reality you mean 'from the time of Philip and his reforms'. I merely propose to briefly mention What it was that was reformed ( brief because we have very little information), by way of a prologue/background. We can then proceed to discuss Philip's army, Alexander's army etc in an orderly fashion..... D