Scarlet skins?

[Ingvar Sigurdson]

During Alarics siege of Rome in 408, he was promised 5,000 pounds of gold, 30,000 pounds of silver, 4,000 silk tunics, 3,000 scarlet skins and 3,000 pounds of peppers. What are the 'scarlet skins', could they be dyed leather hides?

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Ingvar

[Alanus]

Maybe they were Spanish onions... (to go with the pepper) :lol:

How about "scarlet skeins" which some scribe mucked up into "skins." I'll bet they were wools of some type, needed by a Goth on a cold Pannonian night.

[Martin Moser]

What are the 'scarlet skins', could they be dyed leather hides?

Yes, why not?

[Epictetus]

Perhaps sheep skin? In this 1814 translation of Zosimus, they say "scarlet fleeces."

After long discussions on both sides, it was at length agreed, that the city should give five thousand pounds of gold, and thirty thousand of silver, four thousand silk robes, three thousand scarlet fleeces, and three thouand pounds of pepper.

Zosimus 5.40

Perhaps if someone can read the original Greek they can make it clearer.

What is "fleece" anyway? Is it just the skin, the sheared wool, or the skin with the wool on it?

[Alanus]

Wool was usually sheared from the sheep, so the sheep could live to produce more wool. I would more believe that the term denoted a specific quantity-- as wool from one sheep being one unit. Red was popular color, and we see references to "red Poloponesian wool."

[Arminius Primus]

Fratres,

I think Fleece refers to the hide with wool on. Here in the Balkans you can find fleece that has been dyed red. It is an extremely old custom. I have seen natural ,and black but mostly red. ...and they do well in keeping you warm at night. Just my thoughts on this,...

Regards from a very cool and cloudy Scupi, Arminius Primus aka Al

[Astiryu1]

Has anyone ever seen a golden fleece? :lol:

What were the types of dye used? I have always wanted a natural dye compendium. Wal-Mart just isn't very historical minded.

[Epictetus]

Thanks for the good idea. :wink: I could only find modern clothes while doing internet searches for "fleece," but searching for "Golden Fleece" gave some good results. In this image of the Golden Fleece, it looks like the fleece still has the head and horns attached!

[Astiryu1]

I search often through the internet for photos that look good. Just to have them on file. I try to use museums as often as possible but the inevitable google/images is most productive. I often find links through google to excellent sites. Which is how I found RAT by the way!

[Alanus]

That's a nice photo of the Goldern Fleece. I've heard the explanation that the custom comes from people using fleeces like Californians once panned for gold, only in the rivers that flowed into the Black Sea, the gold adhereing to the wool.

But I think you're right on the whole skin being dyed red. And the Balkens custom must be an old one... plus the Goths once lived in the Balkans.

[Astiryu1]

What if enough heat were applied to such a fleece that the hair and gold were fused together. Say by a lightning strike!
It is a crackpot theory I just came up with: but I don't have enough gold to try it.

[Alanus]

I'm a little short on gold, myself. :wink:

I imagine that as minute particles of a river's gold dust adhered to the fleece it became golden looking, and in fact was partially gold. hock:

[Astiryu1]

The lightning would be an act of Zeus in those days. A fleece hung out to dry, on a pole, covered in gold and struck by lightning. If the fleece fits... :!:

[Ingvar Sigurdson]

Thanks for the earlier translation, a shame it is fleeces, and not a dyed leather that I was hoping for.

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Ingvar