Sometimes Universities can be so stupid

[D B Campbell]

Aesop's "Hen Laying Golden Eggs" springs to mind:

http://adrianmurdoch.typepad.com/my_weblog/2010/04/glasgows-guard-under-threat.html

(Apparently, the GU "media relations" department bungled the press release in spectacular fashion, even managing to confirm inaccurate figures :roll: ... allegedly, of course, and according to unnamed sources.)

[Jona Lendering]

Has Great-Britain signed the Convention of Valetta? If so, I would argue -with the knowledge that I now have- that the demand to the archaeologists is not altogether unreasonable. But there may be more than meets the eye.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

The exact figures were not available from the university yesterday, but The Herald understands the target set for Guard was up to £350,000 and the shortfall was £150,000.

How can anyone in their right minds set these targets ? since when are archaeologists real estate brokers ?

M.VIB.M.

[Jona Lendering]

How can anyone in their right minds set these targets ?

Under the terms of the Valetta Convention, this is quite modest, actually.

I do not know the details; I do not even know whether the Valetta Convention ("treaty of Malta") applies. But if dozens of millions have come available for archaeology in a small country like Holland, it is not unreasonable to assume that a professional university must be able to obtain its 350,000 pound. I am not only an archaeology fan, I am also a citizen, and I like it when my money is not wasted.

Again, I do not know the details. If Duncan asks me to sign a petition, I will do so immediately, no further questions asked; I know he is a serious man, I have read two of his books, I know he is reliable and I know that he will not ask my signature/help/support for a mere triviality. Yet, I am also tired of universities complaining (Dutch: "huilie doen"). Perhaps this article helps understand my skepticism.

Comparison. About half a year I organized two lectures, and I rented a lecture room from a major educational institution in the center of Amsterdam. Three times have I asked the invoice, and I have not received it, because obtaining money "was not the priority of the institution". Refusing money that is offered to you -because people like to pay for services rendered- is, quite simply, financial mismanagement. Not obtaining 350,000 pound in a post-Valetta-world is hard to explain.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Ah ok, i thought they meant the Univ should have a turnover of 350.000 pounds to keep their archeology department viable.... thats what i meant..

Here in Holland the commercial archeological agencies ruin a lot for Univs....

ill support any petition the Dunctster asks me to sign, since i hold him in high esteem, especially all of his work in the Roman archeological field.

M.VIB.M.

[Jona Lendering]

Here in Holland the commercial archeological agencies ruin a lot for Univs...

That's two debates, actually: one about the Valetta Convention, the other about privatization of archaeology - in Holland, they are connected, but this is not the only possibility.

Anyhow, to return to your actual words: that commercial agencies are ruining a lot, is what the universities want you to believe. However, the greatest excavation we have had in recent years (the railroad from Hook of Holland to the German border) was done professionally, swifter than any university would have done it, and without serious complaints. It was also published almost immediately. And why? Because the Dutch Railways, which had to pay for the job, wanted to know in advance what it would cost - just a responsibility towards society. (Yes, I am saying something kind about the Dutch Railways.)

I am generally not for liberalization of gov't tasks, but in archaeology, the results have been extremely beneficial.

[Crispvs]

Frankly I have never heard of the Valetta Convention until now, but one thing that I am sick and tired of is unelected and vastly overpaid Eurocrats forcing things down our necks which we do not want, do not need and which are resented by the vast majority of people forced to be imposed upon by an unwanted and unwarranted European Union. The sooner the corruption which is the EU and all of its pointless and expensive departments and bureaucrats get relocated to Mars for good the better. Hundreds of millions of people would be better off without it and would almost certainly be happier as well.

Crispvs

[Jona Lendering]

I have never heard of the Valetta Convention until now

It is probably one of the most important international agreements about heritage management ever, because it established a very basic principle: the person who wants to build on a specific site, is responsible for financing the excavation. This has created much clarity. Even though we cannot say that someone or some body "owns the past", at least it is agreed who pays the bill (and will forward it to you).

As a consequence, several important things have happened. In the first place, the developers of great building projects have asked that archaeologists predict how much money they will need. There are now large databanks, which are valuable scientific projects in themselves. In Holland, we have good experiences, and the expected weakness (what to do if there is an unexpected, really sensational find for which we have no money?) has turned out to be less serious than expected.

In the second place, archaeologists have learned to better look at the budget. Which is a good thing, because in the end, you and I have to pay the bill. Your remarks about the EU wasting money may be correct in general, but appears (to me) ill-directed in this particular case.

In the third place, many construction companies have learned that archaeology is intrinsically vaiuable. They better recognize the added value. They invite architects, at a very early stage, to make sure that people are aware that they are on an archaeologically important site. Example: the way the sanctuary of Isis and Cybele has become accessible in a new shopping mall in Mainz (photos).

In the fourth place -and this is a future development- museums are less for displaying objects. They can explain the choices made by archaeologists, can explain what archaeology and history are really about.

There you are: I've counted your blessings, one to four. Millions have become accessible. I still haven't found out whether Britain, which has signed the convention, has laws to enforce it. If it has, GUARD ought to have been able to obtain money - unless I am missing a point, which is certainly possible.

[Praefectusclassis]

Wooo, back up the car there Crispvs. Somebody obviously touched an open nerve there, but there's no need to hijack this thread with bile. The Valetta treaty is actually an initiative of the Council of Europe. This body cooperates with the EU, but is not part of it. So your outburst is actually not topical to this thread.

You can find an explanation of the Valetta treaty here.

[Crispvs]

Thanks. I see now what you mean.

Crispvs