Posts: 3,607
Threads: 226
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
5
I would like to point at this discussion:
link from old RAT
I still have the impression that it is far from sure that these objects were used for cloaks at all.... ^^
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Posts: 2,913
Threads: 21
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation:
1
I very much have the impression that these objects are indeed for clothing and not used at all for sword suspension.
Brian Stobbs
Posts: 3,607
Threads: 226
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
5
An impression doesn´t help, Brian. They were certainly found in context with sword belts / baldrics.
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Posts: 13,279
Threads: 102
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
3
Quote:An impression doesn´t help, Brian. They were certainly found in context with sword belts / baldrics.
What era?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Posts: 3,607
Threads: 226
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
5
Byron, it´s all in the link above. There´s actually more, meanwhile, if I find time I´ll post it.
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Posts: 13,279
Threads: 102
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
3
I do recall that thread, but I was never 100% convinced that the info conlusively ruled out cloaks.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Posts: 3,607
Threads: 226
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
5
No, it doesn´t rule out cloaks, but we have no sound archeological evidence that theses objects were used for cloaks, whereas we do have evidence that they were used for belts.
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Posts: 2,913
Threads: 21
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation:
1
I think that an explanation of the established evidence for these things being used on swords and not on clothing needs very much to be defined, there is of course evidence that some have been found along with swords but no leatherwork with them to verify such a conclusion.
There are many cases on Roman coins showing Emperors wearing cloaks with the same type of round fasteners as the two I have, and for all the other types in my collection I can assure anyone they would not be large enough nor indeed have the strength to support a sword.
Brian Stobbs
Posts: 3,607
Threads: 226
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
5
Brian,
there is one such find with a leather belt from Vindonissa, plus there are two very small ones from Idria pri Baci, which belonged to a belt. There are also loads of small ones from "Celtic" context. How can you identify these objects on coins, I wonder? arent´t the depictions on coins a bit too small to safely identify these objects on them?
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Posts: 2,913
Threads: 21
Joined: Jan 2008
Reputation:
1
Christian.
There are coins that show many Emperors wearing cloaks with the disc of these clothes fasteners showing very clearly, like this replica of one that I have in my collection.
http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... hal069.jpg
Brian Stobbs
Posts: 7,668
Threads: 117
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation:
0
Is the toggle end soldered onto the disc, or is it a single-piece casting?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)
Saepe veritas est dura.
Posts: 3,607
Threads: 226
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
5
Brian,
how would you discern these from disc-fibulae?
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
Posts: 1,962
Threads: 106
Joined: Apr 2003
Reputation:
7
Those things could be used for a lot of functions.
There are clearly used as fasteners to hung cavalry pendants from harnesses, too.
Every use don't implies that could'nt be used for another use!!!
Is as if you asks for what we use a button now. Could be used for trousers for a pouch, for a shirt, etc...
Posts: 7,668
Threads: 117
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation:
0
I'm still stuck on the question that for garments, a proper buttonhole was from a later historical period, and that toggles/buttons were passed through a loop in the garment, made one way or another. Am I thinking wrongly again? :?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)
Saepe veritas est dura.
Posts: 3,607
Threads: 226
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation:
5
Quote:Every use don't implies that could'nt be used for another use!!!
I completely agree :-) wink:
Christian K.
No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.
Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
|
