Newbie; cleaning your armor?

[raperm]

Greetings, all! I've long been interested in Roman history, particularly the military aspects of it (and after serving in the modern army for 12 years, I find it deliciously funny how little things have changed). I recently bought a set of lorica segmentata (Cobridge type A), and it's in good shape and fits nicely. Got a couple of questions, though, that some of you guys can probably help me with.

1: The inner surface of the plates is coated with this black sealant, almost like paint. Any advice on the best way to clean that off?

2: Is there anywhere that shows what kind of knot was used to tie up the laces? And, is there a preferred or proscribed method of doing so? I've seen it two ways: one with a single, long lace (like tying a shoe), or more often, individual laces for each set of lace rings. I want to get it as right as possible.

3: Finally, what's a good source of quality reproduction gear? I want to eventually get the entire kit, from gallic helmet to hob-nailed caliga. Any sources folks can vouch for?

Sorry if these questions seem basic or if they're in the threads somewhere, but I'm new to buying this kind of equipment.

Thanks!

[jvrjenivs]

1) if that black stuff is paint, I would just leave it. It can be removed by grinding it away, but it will also prevent your segmentata to start rusting on the inside (due to sweaty tunics, etc)

2) I personally prefer individual laces. I found that giving a better fit. What the evidence for both methods is, I don't know, but I don't expect there to be that much evidence.

3) that depents on what you call quality reproduction gear. (and what kind of budget you would like to spend on it). For good off the shelf gear, check Matt Amt comments, and go to soulofthewarrior.com (USA) or Armamentaria.com (UK). Also Armae.com (France) can be of some use. For most custom jobs, it depends on the kind of job you would like to commision, who to ask. Check the suppliers list on Matt Amts website (larp.com/legioxx) and the marketplace subforum here.
I mean, I would love to have an excellent helmet by Antony Feldon or Erik Konig (you'll pay over 1000 euros for a single piece), but you've a good Indian helmet for less than 200 euro. Also, the eastern Europe has some very good craftsmen.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

As you're in the States, I would suggest looking in the market section here, and checking out SOTW.
In Europe, we have Armamentaria.
Both have threads in the market place.
Plus, there is info to more specialised artisans and fabricators, depending on how far you want to go!

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

Pretty much what they said. For starters, there is my humble Legio XX site, with pages on each item of equipment plus a long page on Suppliers:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/

Be aware that there is a growing amount of reasonably accurate equipment available, IF you know what to look for, but there is also a huge amount of stuff which is iffy or downright bad. Also remember that most vendors out there have the bad stuff right alongside the good. Caveat Emptor! Research before you buy, save yourself a lot of cash and agony. Just digging through old threads here on RAT will tell you an awful lot about what's good and what's not. Or how to improve some of the not-so-good stuff, if you want to get into that (though I always recommend just getting good stuff from the start!).

Also check the Links page and contact the groups in your area (Legio XI Claudia PF, for one). Rather than try to figure out what not to buy, get with a group and see what they recommend.

In ancient times, iron armor was most likely left black from the forge inside, to help prevent rust. Reproductions are often just painted black. Lacing:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/lorlace1.jpg

Oh, before the moderators nudge you, RAT requires you to have at least your real first name in your signature block. You can fix that in your Profile.

Have fun and good luck!

Matthew

[Doc]

For custom work that does not require going to Europe, you can search on the RAT markerplace for Matt Lukes Fabrica (he is in Vancouver). Although, at this time I do not believe that he makes helmets. However, he makes just about all other things. The quality is the top hands down. However, as pointed out, these commissioned works are much more expensive.

For helmets in the US, there is Joe Piela at The Lonely Mountain Forge.

If you want chainmail as part of your kit, then the best is Erik Schmid. His mail shirts are simply the most accurate, period.

[A_Volpe]

Welcome to the madness

Consider too, getting reference books like "Roman Military Equipment" (Bishop/Coulston), "Greece and Rome at War" (Connolly), "Roman Military Dress"; "Roman Military Clothing I, II, III Osprey books (Sumner) - they have images and drawings of actual gear that has been found - and also scope the RomanArmyTalk website and Imagebase to look at funerary sculpture and the like ~ All of this you can use for reference to compare to reconstructed gear that is made to see how "accurate" it is, and if not, some of the gear out there can be modified, improved, upgraded. It can be a lot easier and fairly inexpensive than you might think. Everything back then was made by hand, the technology tools and materials haven't changed much, so it's very do-able.

As for you armor, what with others have said, the black paint on the inside is best left on there. It's likely a Rustoleum like paint, to prevent rusting of the inside. it will eventually wear off with use, and, no-one's going to see it when you wear it so, no big deal

As for lacing, try both methods and figure out what works for you. Individual ties appear to be the most popular among us, although a few also like to use the "shoe lace" style. We don't have definitive poof of how the Romans did it. I personally opt for individual ties, I find it way easier to put on and tie up by myself, I've had to help friends tying them in with the 'shoelace' style, although I'm sure you could do it yourself. The problem with the shoelace is that as you work your way up/down while lacing, it can get loosened up as you go ~ you'd need to keep the previous lacing tight - whereas the individual ties you don't have this problem. One trick that Matt Amt suggests and works great is to tie the lace to one loop on one side of the armor, so that you won't lose it, and have enough length to tie up. I like to use a double-knot to secure it. To open, just tug on one end to loosen and open it up. Others use a shoe-tie bow, others use a slipknot (I know it as a "medieval" knot) - again, whatever you find that works for you.

Equipment - I suggest Par Fabrica for Caligae, or Lee Helova has done tremendous research, if you're feeling adventerous in making your own
http://www.legiotricesima.org/campusMar ... ligae.html

Matt's Leg XX page has a long list of good vendors. I've had good experiences with Find-It Armory and Clang Armory, among others.

[raperm]

Thanks, guys.

I did get that black crap cleaned off. I do think it was paint, but whoever put it on did a really bad job; when I first put the armor on to test for fit it left black flecks all over the place. So, I've cleaned it all off and am putting a coat of sealer on it to keep it from coroding. Pretty good fit, all in all, and surprisingly comfortable. With a sublarmis, it's really no worse than the current body armor we wear in the army (and I wore that stuff for a long, long time!)

About lacing. One reason I buy this stuff is to see how it works. I can't find any records of how it was laced, but I bet it was done with individual laces. Here's why. Lace it up like a shoe, and one minor stroke with an edged weapons will cut the lace. Move around a bit, and your armor is going to hang open. With multiple laces, it's not only harder to actually hit and cut the ties, but even if someone does it won't matter much because the hoops above and below will still be secured. I'm sure the Romans figured this out, too. So, it's off to making a dozen or so ties. Now, to find a good helmet...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks, guys.


About lacing. One reason I buy this stuff is to see how it works. I can't find any records of how it was laced, but I bet it was done with individual laces. Here's why. Lace it up like a shoe, and one minor stroke with an edged weapons will cut the lace. Move around a bit, and your armor is going to hang open. With multiple laces, it's not only harder to actually hit and cut the ties, but even if someone does it won't matter much because the hoops above and below will still be secured. .

That is my reasoning too!

[Matthew Amt]

Two reasons for individual laces: First, bending forwards doesn't loosen the lace! Second, it's a LOT easier to come up with 6 laces 12" long, than to find one lace 4 or 5 feet long. Which is then going to break. And you will curse. I'm not sure the danger of the lace getting cut was all that great, since the armor doesn't tend to gap open significantly when unlaced. Granted, it would be worse in battle! Probably more of a nuissance on the march, when your single lace breaks...

Valete,

Matthew

[A_Volpe]

Lace it up like a shoe, and one minor stroke with an edged weapons will cut the lace.

that's basically what I figured for a while. But to think more about it, if you somehow allow someone in that close to you, and then able to cut those laces, then you're doing something wrong, or, you're already dead

But when a long lace breaks, it is indeed frustrating and you will curse. So certainly having many, shorter laces is way easier to work it.

I've even taken some extra ties and just tied them to some of the loops as 'emergency extra' in case some of them break....and that will happen eventually. (or useful if a rivet pops and/or you need to shore up a hanging plate)

In the same notion that is one hoop's lacing breaks, the hoops above and below will help keep the armor together - I think this is the same concept for the Caligae - if one of the straps breaks, the boot will still stay on your foot with the dozen other straps that are tied down, as well as tied above the ankle.