Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Help with Roman cavalry and melon beads in Germania
#31
Thank you for the good wishes and I am fine. I didn't notice the blow to the helmet but it seems it was audible across the arena. The horse took a sharp left and I hung on, hung on, hung on a bit more and then sort of fell off. :oops:

I was unhurt. Roman horses are very small. I made sure the horse was in good hands,checked the bow and the sword, swore at the damage to armour and helmet, joined the infantry and smiled at the crowd to show them I was OK.

But the melon bead made sure the helmet stayed closed up and bruised my chin.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
Reply
#32
Quote:Probably best not to then...looks painful... Confusedhock:

Was looking again in Edinburgh but did not come across them... :?

Not had a response from them either, so I'm not sure what the provenance is. Still, there's time for something new to surface.

-Su
Mike and Su Poole
Reply
#33
Quote:But the melon bead made sure the helmet stayed closed up and bruised my chin.

Better a bruised chin than a broken jawbone. I was kicked in the chin by a horse once, cracked a tooth in the process.

Good to see the bead's still in one piece. We keep telling people they're pretty tough.

-Su
Mike and Su Poole
Reply
#34
Hi,
something to the melon beads:
C. Höpken, Herstellung quarzkeramischer Melonenperlen im römischen Flottenlager Köln Alteburg: Terminologie - Technologie - Befund. In: Xantener Berichte 13, 353-363.
It seems that these beads were made there and the author refers to beads found together with horse harness (Krefeld-Gellep and Ladenburg) and the remains of a mule wearing some beads.
regards
nox
regards
noxia /Suzi
Reply
#35
Re. direct evidence of use of melon beads on cavalry harness:

One of the horses killed in the battle of Gelduba in 69 AD still had 17 melon beads around its neck when it was burried (grave 3960):

[url:2t1is1aw]http://www.archaeologie-krefeld.de/Bilder/entdeckungen/PDF%20Dateien/Pferdegeschirr/BeitragLVR2007.pdf[/url]

(in German)

Another unlucky equid with (this time 11) melon beads around its neck was found in Pompeji:

[url:2t1is1aw]http://edoc.ub.uni-muenchen.de/3456/1/Simon_Ortisi_Christina.pdf[/url]

(also in German)
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
Reply
#36
Thank you for the information.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
Reply
#37
Thanks for those very useful links and the other citation. I'll have to dust off the dictionary, but they certainly look promising.

The collection of bits/hackamores/bridle equipment in the one publication is staggering. Some of the bits with rollers on and the one spade bit were of particular interest.

-Su
Mike and Su Poole
Reply
#38
John,

Your beads/bridle look great! they really stand out. Which find are they based upon?

The Vindolanda bead catalogue that I have shows three - four large melon beads associated with military (one of which was found attached to a leather strap suggested as horsegear) the largest diameter given is 25mm which yours look like a perfect match to, but the width (as they refer to it - meaning the bead height) is given as a maximum of 15mm. Yours look much thicker, almost a ball, so I'm thinking it isn't the Vindolanda beads??
Reply
#39
Hi,

This is just a quick note about the beads we made and provided to John for his horse harness. They are indeed based on the finds from Vindolanda, a selection of two sizes as discussed with John as the most suitable for the use he planned for them. As there is no exact proof one way or another that they were or were not horse harness beads, the beads in question were created as the best choice for the project. As for their being almost round, the larger ones are a longer oval and the smaller ones are more round but that again fits in with types found at Vindolanda and also the sizes chosen for the project.

If you have information that contradicts the work we did, we will be more than happy to see it.

There is so much misinformation about beads and also the styles common to Britain that we're more than happy to correct anything we have said that is shown to be incorrect as to type, use, style, shape and colour. It would be ideal to see beads used correctly for personal use in military gear and in jewellery and other personal items , sadly we see quite often that this is not the case and we have no intention of adding to the catalogue of misinformation or misuse of bead types or styles for re-enactment purposes.

Regards,

Mike and Su Poole
Mike and Su Poole
Reply
#40
I'm back on line and it is surprising how much you miss a computer.

I used "The Roman Jewellery from Vindolanda" research report, new series volume IV, fascicule V: beads, intaglios, finger rings, bracelets and ear-rings by Birley and Greene, easily avaliable from the Vindolanda shop. Published back in 2006 it lists 80 melon beads, 72 in faience. I'm not too sure what you classify as large, but several have a width of over 15mm. Two of us ordered beads for horse harness, lots of them. Each one displays a pleasing variation which makes exact classification tricky but they fall within 18/20mm diameter and 20/22mm length. his equates to over half a dozen beads found in a military context plus a couple of civilian finds as well.

Of course in the back of my mind I was thinking of old Titus Flavius Bassus, and wanting large beads which would stand out. I placed them on a neck strap, recommended all the way back in the days of Xenophon as something extra to hold on to. They have been trodden on, dropped and generally abused but seem very very tough. The blue stands out beautifully.

[attachment=0:2bk2mthq]<!-- ia0 IMG_3584.JPG<!-- ia0 [/attachment:2bk2mthq]
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
Reply
#41
I would like to also point out that most of the beads found in Roman contexts are individually handmade and can vary in size even in a set. Taking a look at the faience beads on the picture of the dolabra sheath in this thread shows a definite variation in size, number and placement of grooves for the melon beads and even a difference in the shape of each bead. Faience beads are easier to create than lampworked beads as they are cold-worked, shaped and then fired. Lampworked beads are made from molten glass, and getting the beads to match exactly is a very difficult thing to do. This is different from pressed beads which are a furnace technique and allows for a more standardised shape/size for beads but pressed beads are a different technique and not used for melons.

If you look at finds of groups of beads, you will see that many times they are the same colour and style but can vary wildly in shape/size due to the nature of the way they are made.

If there is any interest in more information on beadmaking, please ask and we'll offer any information we have to hand.

We've had no response yet about the beads from Scotland.
Mike and Su Poole
Reply


Forum Jump: