I am sorry you feel I missed your point, maybe my reply was, like the description by Tacitus, incomplete.
My point was that the site was certainly backed by woods but that does not rule out the site also having high ground to the rear as well if placed within the descriptive "forcibus". The two characteristics are not mutually exclusive and we know Tacitus to be poor or abbreviated with site description. His lack of precision in describing the specific topography is reasonable and a potential omission which we have to take account of and allow latitude for.
Your interpretation seems to be that Tacitus states the rear is only protected by woodland, my view is that this could equally be that the rear is protected by woodland and still retain the advantage of the forcibus topography .... this doesn't seem too big a leap to me, particularly when the advantages of a rare closed valley are so obvious and the text so thin..
That we agree on the problem the debate faces by nominees evading the topography issue is good. But these weak sites, and the methodologies that they result from, need to be called out. This should either focus the debate and resources or may help to reduce the negative image the study of this topic seems to have amongst academics, individuals who either won't look, won't engage or persist in giving unworthy credibility to the analysis of Fuentes and Webster, whilst ignoring Frere's suggestion the site is north west of Towcester... (if anyone knows who made the "reasonable guess" Frere refers to could you drop it to me please (Britannia: A History of Roman Britain))
Note at the top of the clip Paulinus is rejoining his column having been down to London with his cavalry. He doesn't use the term "Cavalry Dash" but he certainly recognises the advanced reconnaissance in force in 1967, pre dating the Fuentes article by 16 years, making Fuentes the rebel taking on the old boys of the establishment by pejoratively characterising a reasonable recce tactic as a "Dash".
The North West sector of Towcester looks like this (guess what the red splodge represents ????)
"But what brought Boudicca there"
1, A chariot, or maybe just a horse.
2, Looking for a fight, the odds and impetus were in the Iceni's favour.
3, She may have had little say in the matter. We have to be sensible about her poor command and communication, and her status. Tacitus makes her the star of the show but we know the world isn't like that. Perceived Leaders are more often just cyphers, he needed a dramatic focus, she became one (or maybe was invented to be one). In reality we have 100 000+ twenty something males feeling they are on a roll, buoyed up by blood lust and pillage, they are off to find the hated bad guys to hand out the punishment beating of all punishment beatings and reap the rewards. The lads were going to find the Romans and have a fight, she could opt out (for no good reason) or go with the flow.
We're in Green Street mind set rather than Sandhurst and that is one of the core lessons Tacitus seeks to teach his readers. This was far from a professional army so applying formal military models to the British side just won't work.
4, Positioned to the North East of Iceni home territory, holding the heart of the island the Roman force is an existential threat to the Iceni that they could not accept. Once the short period where momentum and fast dwindling supplies closes the British force will never reassemble. No force of scale will be available to provide a meaningful defence to the open approach to Iceni territory would ever again be recruited. This was the moment to lance the Roman boil and the strategic threat it posed at the head of the two main approach routes to Iceni-land from the west.
Don't forget how close Church Stowe is to Iceni territory (Thrapston, based on Will Bowden's definition BFT 2023). 25 miles of easy going river valley. This is the point where Watling Street is at it's closest to Iceni territory and probably the easiest route into its heartlands.
5, The Brits may not even have been entirely aware of the size of the Roman force and thought they were mopping up (not that the number would have put them off) nor might they be aware of the terrain the Romans were holding. 17 years of non-martial culture in the Brecklands would provide little to no skill or experience for strategizing or fighting in this more dramatic terrain.
721,089
My point was that the site was certainly backed by woods but that does not rule out the site also having high ground to the rear as well if placed within the descriptive "forcibus". The two characteristics are not mutually exclusive and we know Tacitus to be poor or abbreviated with site description. His lack of precision in describing the specific topography is reasonable and a potential omission which we have to take account of and allow latitude for.
Your interpretation seems to be that Tacitus states the rear is only protected by woodland, my view is that this could equally be that the rear is protected by woodland and still retain the advantage of the forcibus topography .... this doesn't seem too big a leap to me, particularly when the advantages of a rare closed valley are so obvious and the text so thin..
That we agree on the problem the debate faces by nominees evading the topography issue is good. But these weak sites, and the methodologies that they result from, need to be called out. This should either focus the debate and resources or may help to reduce the negative image the study of this topic seems to have amongst academics, individuals who either won't look, won't engage or persist in giving unworthy credibility to the analysis of Fuentes and Webster, whilst ignoring Frere's suggestion the site is north west of Towcester... (if anyone knows who made the "reasonable guess" Frere refers to could you drop it to me please (Britannia: A History of Roman Britain))
Note at the top of the clip Paulinus is rejoining his column having been down to London with his cavalry. He doesn't use the term "Cavalry Dash" but he certainly recognises the advanced reconnaissance in force in 1967, pre dating the Fuentes article by 16 years, making Fuentes the rebel taking on the old boys of the establishment by pejoratively characterising a reasonable recce tactic as a "Dash".
The North West sector of Towcester looks like this (guess what the red splodge represents ????)
"But what brought Boudicca there"
1, A chariot, or maybe just a horse.
2, Looking for a fight, the odds and impetus were in the Iceni's favour.
3, She may have had little say in the matter. We have to be sensible about her poor command and communication, and her status. Tacitus makes her the star of the show but we know the world isn't like that. Perceived Leaders are more often just cyphers, he needed a dramatic focus, she became one (or maybe was invented to be one). In reality we have 100 000+ twenty something males feeling they are on a roll, buoyed up by blood lust and pillage, they are off to find the hated bad guys to hand out the punishment beating of all punishment beatings and reap the rewards. The lads were going to find the Romans and have a fight, she could opt out (for no good reason) or go with the flow.
We're in Green Street mind set rather than Sandhurst and that is one of the core lessons Tacitus seeks to teach his readers. This was far from a professional army so applying formal military models to the British side just won't work.
4, Positioned to the North East of Iceni home territory, holding the heart of the island the Roman force is an existential threat to the Iceni that they could not accept. Once the short period where momentum and fast dwindling supplies closes the British force will never reassemble. No force of scale will be available to provide a meaningful defence to the open approach to Iceni territory would ever again be recruited. This was the moment to lance the Roman boil and the strategic threat it posed at the head of the two main approach routes to Iceni-land from the west.
Don't forget how close Church Stowe is to Iceni territory (Thrapston, based on Will Bowden's definition BFT 2023). 25 miles of easy going river valley. This is the point where Watling Street is at it's closest to Iceni territory and probably the easiest route into its heartlands.
5, The Brits may not even have been entirely aware of the size of the Roman force and thought they were mopping up (not that the number would have put them off) nor might they be aware of the terrain the Romans were holding. 17 years of non-martial culture in the Brecklands would provide little to no skill or experience for strategizing or fighting in this more dramatic terrain.
721,089
