Thread Rating:
  • 4 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
(09-17-2022, 12:21 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote:
(09-16-2022, 05:45 PM)Owein Walker Wrote: Boudica's army, led by various Chieftains, all finding the resources they need travelling along a Roman road and not feeling vulnerable.

If they wanted to find places to attack and plunder, the Roman roads would lead them there!  [Image: wink.png]

More generally, there's no particular reason why the Britons would follow the road network - although in places like the Chilterns the roads probably followed earlier tracks, which would have used the best available routes anyway.

We should consider, as well, that neither the Britons nor the Romans had anything like a modern map. The Romans had itineraries telling them which road would lead them where, and how long it might take to get there, which would allow a certain amount of long-distance strategy and coordination. The Britons would have known their own tribal homeland. Beyond that both of them were dependent on local guides to lead them.

If either force moved further than 20 miles or so from the other (a day's effective scouting range, out and back) they would have no idea of the enemy's location or direction of march, and would be operating totally in the dark.


(09-16-2022, 05:45 PM)Owein Walker Wrote: What about Suetonius preparing defences around his position?

Nothing in our sources mentions it. He was choosing a battlefield, not building a fortress.

His idea, as I see it, was to get the Britons to attack him on a restricted frontage. They would have been a lot less likely to do this if he was in a securely fortified position - they could have just surrounded him and waited...

Are you saying SP had his troops do nothing other than sit about resting and waiting on open ground for several days and nights, and the civilians the same, while  a huge army prepares to attack them?
 It is an interesting idea, but prone to disaster.

You know better than this, I'm sure.

In your scenario, Boudicca could have surrounded SP and waited with or without defences being built. She wasn't forced to attack because of a few defences or lack of them. Her speech prior to the battle mentions something like,

"The Roman division which dared to fight is annihilated. The others cower in their camps, or watch for a chance to escape. "

Remember, this is to motivate her troops to attack a position at the end of a valley, Who was looking to escape, and why mention camps at all? she continued.

"They will never face even the din and roar of all our thousands, much less the shock of our onslaught".

This is an odd phrase,"They will never face". It would be easy to assume she is talking about some Roman soldiers who aren't there, but why mention other combatants when your enemy is ahead of you? 

Is Boudicca preparing her troops to attack a camp, as it seems a strange motivational talk if there wasn't one.

I could argue that Boudicca had to attack SP as he seemed firmly embedded in his defensive position, and she hoped to bring him to battle and win. I don't think she could keep her army together, and supplied indefinitely.

(09-17-2022, 04:47 PM)Renatus Wrote:
(09-17-2022, 04:02 PM)Owein Walker Wrote: How I see the defile is like a tongue in a mouth. The mouth being the surrounding hillside /valley covered in trees, and the tongue as a narrow spit of land at the head of the valley.

You say elsewhere that you cannot comment upon the Latin words or their translation but that is precisely the point.  'Defile' is simply the translators' choice of word.  The Latin reads 'artis faucibus' which can indeed be translated as 'in a narrow defile'.  However, 'fauces' has a number of meanings.  Literally, it means 'throat, pharynx, gullet' but when applied to places it means 'a narrow way, defile, pass'.  In a maritime context, it means a 'strait or sound'.  In relation to the battle, I would be looking for a narrow, steep-sided valley which would allow Suetonius space to draw up his troops but which would prevent the enemy from outflanking him and force them to engage him on his own frontage.

I don't think that there can be any question about Suetonius creating a marching camp.  As you say, it was normal practice.  Finding it is the problem.  Lowland Britain must have been strewn with marching camps dating from the invasion and later but few will have survived two millennia of agriculture.

But few large camps, if any (None so far recorded), have been found at the end of a valley, surrounded by trees.
Likewise, the battlefield has not been found or recorded, yet. 

I agree with a narrow steep - sided valley, but it needs a freshwater supply that cannot be poisoned or stopped, therefore spring fed.
 I sometimes think we underestimate the preparation and planning of SP and how competent he was. Furthermore, I see the use of Delay as a strategy which allowed him the time to manoeuvre his troops and supplies into a position where he wanted to fight.
Ian
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand. - by Owein Walker - 09-17-2022, 04:49 PM

Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Armchair Wall walking mcbishop 3 3,508 01-11-2012, 03:22 AM
Last Post: Vindex

Forum Jump: