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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
Quote:"deligitque locum artis faucibus et a tergo silva clausum"

Church and Brodribb... "chose a position approached by a narrow defile, closed in at the rear by a forest"

Michael Grant... "chose a position in a defile with a wood behind him"

So, the key word is "faucibus" [faux] variously translated as throat, gullet, jaws, gorge, ravine, chasm, isthmus, pass and defile. In this context 'defile' seems quite a tame description in comparison to 'gorge' or 'chasm'.

Quote:Now this is interesting. The two translations actually seem to site the battle differently - C & B place the position behind the defile (approached by it), whereas Grant has it in the defile...

Snap! Wonderful, I've been pondering this for years and thought it was just my pedantic mind playing tricks. Glad I joined this forum. As for which is right, I can't say, don't have the Latin. To my mind C&B's translation seems to imply a bowl shaped feature set within elevated surrounds and approached by a defile. However, outside of the high, glaciated hills in the UK that is a rare configuration which is one reason why I use the more accepted defile/narrow valley definition.

By the way, I know an editor who thinks the Boudican section of T. needs reinterpreting - drop me a PM if interested.

Quote:There's the note in Dio's account about Paulinus dividing his force into three - I'd previously imagined that this might be some garbled reference to the three-pronged tactical advance, but that might be fanciful. If the main Roman line closed the 'defile', with auxiliaries and cavalry holding the high ground to either side, that would be a division into three, more or less. Fairly standard formation too, of course.

I suspect Dio is using the three force approach to allow the orator/actor to spout more nonsense at the dinner guests. I feel a little guilty in saying I ignore Dio.

Quote:Still, I would have to argue that descriptions of terrain are necessarily relative. If we imagine Paulinus heading up Watling street, for example, or even along the Portway towards Silchester, then he would be crossing a comparatively flat gentle landscape. In this environment, even a shallow depression between low hills could be considered a 'pass' or 'defile' - he had to work with the terrain that was available to him. To insist on Paulinus's 'defile' matching our criteria for one is potentially to distort the shape of the campaign, sending the Roman force many miles away in search of a battlefield that better meets what we would consider appropriate topography...

I agree with the relativity statement. However, I think we underestimate Seutonius, as we (mere civilians) tend to do of exceptional generals, partly because accounts of campaigns do not typically explain the planning/contingency process and because we don't have the training or experience to read between the lines. Sitting in London he had already examined all available options, including marching to forts or support in the west, but he would also have contingencies, e.g. fighting a battle. Given his poor chance of victory in any defiled terrain other than a robust one, he would select his line of march accordingly, that is west and into the chalk and limestone uplands. I've written that he probably already had the battle site selected before he left London - train of thought might have been:

march west to sanctuary in Gloucester/Exeter/Cirencester:
Contingency 1) join with 2nd Legion and give battle in place of my choosing;
Contingency 2) 2nd Legion not available but rebels overhauling me, so give battle in place of my choosing;
Contingency 3) rebels are being weakened by lack of food/fodder/water so give battle.

Going west along the Portway is I believe the smart move - Suetonius would make a great chess player. And, if I remember correctly, T. describes him as the greatest general of his time.

You say, "he had to work with the terrain that was available to him". I say he chose the direction of march and the terrain knowing that both maximised his chances.

Must admit that getting a military planner's viewpoint on this topic would be very interesting. More fun though to take Sandhurst students, tell them to pretent to be Suetonius in London, give them all the available information and have them plan their way out of trouble.

Thank you for responding to my note. Regards, Steve Kaye
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Messages In This Thread
Re: Calling all armchair generals! - by Ensifer - 03-11-2010, 03:13 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-18-2012, 06:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 02:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 02-19-2012, 11:26 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 05:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 09:42 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-24-2012, 10:10 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:11 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 03:25 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-25-2012, 08:36 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-26-2012, 02:57 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 04-27-2012, 01:50 PM
Re: Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by Steve Kaye - 08-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-07-2014, 02:18 PM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-08-2014, 01:50 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-11-2014, 02:03 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-18-2014, 07:54 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-20-2014, 02:37 AM
Calling all armchair generals! Boudica\'s Last Stand. - by antiochus - 11-25-2014, 08:29 AM

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