Event safety

[garrelt]

Sometimes, a non-involved member, wife, friend, etc., can fill the role of camp guard. That keeps the maximum number of active participants at its highest.

In our group it is someone of the household or a fighter, who is not fit enough to take part, that guards the camp when the rest is taking part in a demonstration.
Never someone who is not part of our group.

Question:
Why are there always ropes around a Roman camp ?

[garrelt]

Camp fires.

Here in the Netherlands at some events camp fires have to be 5 meters away from tents/awnings.
A bucket of sand or water and a fire extinguisher must be near an open fire.
At some events/locations you are not allowed to dig fire pits.
These things are mostly written down in the permits for organization and event rules for the participants.

At some events hay- or straw bales are provided by the organization for making sleeping places in a tent.
A lot of people use the bales as seats in the vicinity of open fires.
At one event in Germany such a cosy and warm place to sit and party, the bales caught fire when almost everyone was asleep.
The last person(s) at the fire didn't put it out.
The local fire brigade was, 24 hours present with 2 cars.
They were doing their nightly round along the event area, saw the starting fire and put it out.

[Marcus Mummius]

Question:
Why are there always ropes around a Roman camp ?

Because sadly people will steal everything they can get their hands on. Children will try to impale their friends with anything they can grab etc.

We always let people in our camp if they want but it has to be done in a controlled fashion, otherwise things can go horribly wrong.

[garrelt]

Because sadly people will steal everything they can get their hands on. Children will try to impale their friends with anything they can grab etc.

We always let people in our camp if they want but it has to be done in a controlled fashion, otherwise things can go horribly wrong.

Ok that is a clear explanation for preventing theft of, or damaging the displayed equipment.
It is not only children who try to display their weapon skills but a lot of times adult parents - mostly dads.
Safeguarding public from injury, trough burning themselves on open fires and oil lamps or cutting themselves on the displayed weaponry is not the main decision for putting ropes around a camp?
Ok point taken.

[Marcus Mummius]

Because sadly people will steal everything they can get their hands on. Children will try to impale their friends with anything they can grab etc.

We always let people in our camp if they want but it has to be done in a controlled fashion, otherwise things can go horribly wrong.

Ok that is a clear explanation for preventing theft of, or damaging the displayed equipment.
It is not only children who try to display their weapon skills but a lot of times adult parents - mostly dads.
Safeguarding public from injury, trough burning themselves on open fires and oil lamps or cutting themselves on the displayed weaponry is not the main decision for putting ropes around a camp?
Ok point taken.

Yes, in my opinion these are the two main reasons:

-preventing injury
-preventing theft

BUT the ropes and stakes used have to be assembled in a strong construction. Otherwise the enclosure itself could lead to injury of the public. People will lean onto the enclosure, they will try to push it over...

[garrelt]

Recap

1) Personal safety at the action field:
- A set of universal worldwide rules/guidelines, for taking part in a battle, would be desirable.
Any ideas about the weapons that will/ can be used e.g. blunt steel, wood, latex, foam, rattan etc ?
- A set of double ropes must be placed around the action field.
The safety gap between these ropes is acceptable, as posted in my 5th post?
- Participants need to have an insurance that covers this activity.

2) Camp safety:
- Ropes around a camp to prevent theft and injuries.
This can be optional, because there are groups who don't mind having an open camp.
I only see ropes around camps at roman events and not at early or late medieval events.
- Always leave 1 person from your group in the camp to guard this.
- Never leave open fires unattended.
- Have sand, water near to put out a fire that starts getting out of control.
- Last persons up at night put out the fire.
- No hay, straw bales used for seating in the vicinity of an open fire.
Need to sit?
Than sit on a shield (a flat shield), a sheepskin, a log or a authentic stool or chair.
- A small first aid kit in the camp.
- At least one person in the group who has had first aid training.

[jvrjenivs]

I don't think you would a worldwide set of rules. Not even to speak about how you would maintain such a set.

Every group and every event has its own view. As you don't like the view of the event, just don't go on that field. I think that goes for both displays and shows. At corbvlo we don't use rope around our displays. And we didn't have any problems with both injuries and thefts over the last 5 years we're doing this, although there is for quite some money of weaponry (both blunt and sharp) in our displays.

About the kind of weaponry. I think views differ also too much. Wooden weaponry I sometimes call 'imaginary safe' because a lot of people think ' it is wood, no steel, so I can't hurt'. Then the concentration goes down and it became much more dangerous as being alert, cause you've a steel (blunt) weapon. Thats why I fight with steel (but purely 1-1 gladiatoral combat). Same goes for staged battle. We do free-fight (with rules, that is) because I don't want someone get hurt, because his counting got wrong. Be focussed on what your opponent can do to you, not what was planned he should do.

Anyway, just my cup of tea.

[garrelt]

Jurjen

I don't think you would a worldwide set of rules. Not even to speak about how you would maintain such a set.

Every group and every event has its own view. As you don't like the view of the event, just don't go on that field. I think that goes for both displays and shows.

We are a lot on the same level here.

Sometimes the "?ouse" rules for a event are send along with the invite for the event.
Than you know what to expect and decide from that on, if you will participate or not.

Also no ropes around our display/camp, everyone is welcome until proven otherwise.

[Marcus Mummius]

About the ropes: most fairly large groups with a strong military part use a barrier between them and the public.

Our civilian camp (this at the moment consists out of 4 tents, one huge and three large ones), is open, no ropes necesarry. I understand that it is also not necesarry if you have a fairly small camp like Corbvlo. You can then keep things nice and concentrated. In some locations it is also possible to have an open camp like in Eindhoven. If you are in an open field however a large open camp is 'undefendable' :wink:

We like to show everything to the public, also very expensive stuff. They can touch it if they want, gladly, but they can not steal it . I remember someone stole a pugio from the RCO, it was one made by Erik König...

[jkaler48]

Safety for a authentic Roman Camp can be a difficult problem because the originals were planned to be UNSAFE when approached from the outside. I always have concerns about the wooden stakes placed around display camps. How to make them look real without endangering anyone is something I have not seen yet. Anyone have any ideas for authenic looking but safe Sudes(Valus)?

[M. Demetrius]

Just saw the sharp end off one end of each of your wood barrier stakes. When you want to prevent people from getting hurt, put the dull side out, when you don't worry about that, put the sharp side out. Instant safety.

I'm supposing you meant the stakes we often call either valli or sudes, right? The regular sharp sticks from various tree limbs shouldn't be any harder to handle. Just explain that the "real" ones were sharp so they would be dangerous, but there was no chance the barbarian enemies would hire lawyers and sue the Romans if they were injured. We, on the other hand....

[garrelt]

David

Just a thought:
Within your camp display you place the authentic Valli (palisade stakes) around a few tents.
In this way you can show the public how the defenses around a marching camp could have looked.
Ideally you would also construct a small ditch and rampart with the Valli placed on top of the rampart.

Where you talk to the public there can be a rope boundary with normal poles.
Display and safety both covered.