Vindonissa Catalog

[Matthew Amt]

Avete!<br>
Hey, look, I'm posting, not just replying!<br>
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Just got a belated Christmas present from my beloved sister, "Katalog der Militaria aus Vindonissa", by Christoph Unz and Eckhard Deschler-Erb (ISBN 3-907549-04-X). It's in German, so I can't read it, but it's FABULOUS. It has a whole page of sword pommels and guards (though we've seen the most exciting ones in Bishop and Coulston), a page of grips, a page of pugio blades (all the narrow kind) and a page of pugio hilts (all iron), 2 pages of lorica strap and buckle fittings, nearly a page of lacing loops, almost a page of lobed hinges, 2 and a half pages of stamped or scribed belt plates (mostly ring motif), 2 and a half pages of cast plates, AND almost 2 pages of plain plates, and then come the buckles and frogs!<br>
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There is much more, trust me. I boggled. Looks like almost all the lorica parts are Corbridge types, A and B, with a half-dozen or so that are probably Kalkriese (including what looks like a mid-collar plate!). There are a couple of hinged-together segments, like those on a strap and buckle fitting but 5 in a row with a wacky terminal and little knobs along the edges--some sort of bizarre apron strap, maybe?<br>
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And there's a machete. No crap, straight out of Home Depot, a Castor-and-Pollux machete! Handle shaped identically to modern ones, 4 rivets for the grip (which is missing but I'm betting on Army Green plastic when it shows up!). Just about dropped my teeth... (Of course, it could be a plant by a disgruntled excavation volunteer!)<br>
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Embossed and openwork scabbard parts, cavalry harness fittings out the wazoo. If you want LMS (uh, "Little Metal STUFF"), GET THIS BOOK. Order today from the David Brown Book Company, the US side of Oxbow Books, www.oxbowbooks.com/ .<br>
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Happy reading! Valete,<br>
Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

This *is* the best catalogue if you are interested in 1st century equipment, no two ways about it. The only problem I have is the lack of dimensions, so everything has to be measured off the drawings.<br>
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Not sure about the Kalkriese mid-collar plate (618 looks like Corbridge to me) but 615 is the best candidate we have at the moment for an upper shoulderguard of this type. No 619 may even be a girth hoop of the same kind, but a bit too heavily crudded-up to be sure. Incidentally, some of the lorica pieces from the Schutthügel came out virtually free of corrosion and it is these that reveal that girth hoops were thinner than upper components.<br>
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This is *not* the whole Vindonissa collection, however, as Unz has published other material (from the old cantonal museum) before and this does not include it:<br>
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Unz, C. 1973: 'Römische Funde aus Windisch im ehemaligen Kantonalen Antiquarium Aarau', Gesellschaft pro Vindonissa. Jahresbericht 11-42<br>
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Not the easiest reference to get your hands on!<br>
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As for the book - buy it and choose your belt plate type (it reminds me of a 19th-century mail order catalogue)!<br>
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Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[richsc]

Is there even a Latin word for machete? One of those words lost in time.<br>
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I can only think of Amazon.co.de for these books. Would Oxbow be a good source? Are there any equivalents to Abebooks.com or half.com in Germany? Or for Europe as a whole? <p>Aulus, Legio XX.
the High Noise, Low Signal person for RAT.
ICQ 940236
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[Praefectusclassis]

That would be Amazon.de Rich. Oxbow is a good European supplier, but Abebooks also has plenty of European suppliers in its database. Works fine. <p>Greets<BR>
<BR>
Jasper</p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I share the cheers for this book and can add the German version to Mike Bishop's reference for the article by C. Unz:<br>
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UNZ 1974: Christoph Unz, Römische Funde aus Windisch im ehemaligen Kantonalen Antiquarium Aarau. In: Jahresbericht der Gesellschaft Pro Vindonissa [JbGPV] 1973 ([publ.] 1974), [pp.] 11ff.<br>
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Amazon.de does NOT list the monograph by Unz/Deschler-Erb, but it can be ordered via the (all German) GPV homepage www.provindonissa.ch ; the price there is swiss fr. 80,00 = GBP 33,55 = USD 48,17 (or sfr 60,00 for members of the GPV...) plus p&p from Switzerland.<br>
The Oxbow price is GBP 36,50 plus p&p from the UK; at their US branch David Brown it's USD 65,00 plus p&p. Your choice! I can offer my assistance to anybody who wants to order through the GPV.<br>
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Martin/Magister Navis <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/umagisternavis.showPublicProfile?language=EN>Magister Navis</A> at: 1/22/02 2:42:54 am<br></i>

[mcbishop]

Oxbow have it listed on the British version of their website (but not the US equivalent), but as a back-up you can always try Monique Mergoil's *Librairie Archéologique*:<br>
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www.librarch.com<br>
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They have it listed for 74.09 euros (about US$65 at a rough guess). To find, search on 'deschler' and you will also see the excellent *Ad Arma* listed, which is a catalogue of the military equipment from Augst/Kaiseraugst. The Oxbow British price is cheaper (£36.50) than that in LA.<br>
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As for the machete, U & D-E have it as a Germanic weapon (with parallels from Strasbourg and Free Germany)<br>
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Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Avete!<br>
Item # 615 was what I was thinking might be a Kalkriese mid-collar plate, but in drawing it out full-size it did turn out a little wide for that. Upper shoulder guard makes sense. Or maybe a backplate? I'll have to drag out the German-English dictionary to be sure I'm not missing anything important.<br>
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It was a little surprising to seen the flanged-upward edges on the collar plate fragments, since I had remembered the Corbridge parts as just having rolled or folded edges. Have to go back and check that, and change the tune a little on my lorica page (I've been telling eveyone NOT to flange up the edges!)<br>
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Is there an official opinion on those round "belt plates"? Are they really round belt plates, or are they just the round centers of stamped rectangular plates that have fallen out due to the metal being over-thinned and more susceptible to corrosion, etc.? Cuz the edges look awful clean and regular, and some have rivet holes where none of the rectangular ones do. And then there are those with the wings and lightning bolts (2410 and 2411)--Wild! One of those, and a round one or two, was in the Arma article with the sword and scabbard. Was there any leather found with that assemblage, to make them think that the cloak-fastener-disc-thingy was actually being used as a buckle, or is the interpretation a little shaky?<br>
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Love them puzzles! Valete,<br>
Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

I thought I had earlier mentioned elsewhere that rolled, upset, and out-turned edges were all present amongst the Carnuntum armour, but upsetting is much more common amongst Corbridge-type fittings than the other two methods.<br>
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Personally, I think the round belt plates are just that, no problem. Likewise the unusual belt fastening button presents no problems - in fact, it explains a lot of these things turning up in strange contexts. I don't think there was any leather remaining in the find (although I can't lay my hands on the original publication at the moment, only the Arma version).<br>
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Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Ah, yes, sorry, I do recall something like that. (I really WILL have to make a few adjustments on my site!) But can you clarify "upset" for me, please? I've seen it used as an ironworking term, apparently meaning that the item is struck on edge (or point) to thicken the metal, sort of like making a rivet shank mushroom by peening it. So an "upset" edge is kind of a thickened lip?<br>
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I think the other terms are clearer if not identical. "Rolled" or "folded" both straightforward; and I'm saying "flanged" while you say "out-turned", both meaning that the edge is simply bent outwards at an angle to the rest of the plate. ("Out-turned" is clearer, I think I'll switch!) Just want to keep us mostly on the same sheet of music, as it were.<br>
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Better go drag out my Corbridge report again, for another look! Hmm, gonna make a few round beltplates, too, just to stay ahead of the troops, hmmm...<br>
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Thanks! Vale,<br>
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Matthew, Leg.XX <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

I checked out the terminology with David Sim and, yes, upsetting is exactly what you describe - an edge thickened by beating. A good example is the Longthorpe backplate. It is difficult to tell with most of the stuff in the Corbridge Hoard (cruddiness factor: 0.9), but that *looks* like it is upset and slightly out-turned.<br>
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Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>