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Out of curiousity, were bows made out of composite materials in use during antiquity? I saw a documentary crediting them to the Mongols, but during some online searches I have seen their use placed in other locations at other times.
I've seen them mentioned in a few other threads, but the posts were ambiguous and the threads were about other issues. In order not to muddle those existing threads and topics I thought I would ask here.
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I think composite bows were used to a good effect in Mesopotamia at least in the times of assyrian conquests (600-800 bc). If I remember correctly egyptians had them too, there were some in Tutankhamun`s grave? I must check my sources, sorry if this is a bit "unscientific" :wink: !
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There is a write up in the Dura report, which mentions them in use before the Mongols.
The Yrzi bow was found in a grave nottoo far from Dura.
The report also says they basic construction of the composite bow was wide spread from the Neolithic period....from the Mediterranean to Japan,
In Egypt in theOld Kingdom and Ancient Greece in the time of Homer. a pretty good spread, I would say!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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IIRC a few composite bows were found in Tut's tomb, though the majority were self bows.
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Thanks for the input, everyone. I'll go and check out that report.
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They were pretty common, at least judging from vase depictions and mosaics (partly of of Scythian bowmen in Athenian service) from the 5th century BC onwards.
I have seen meanwhile a multitude of ancient Greek and Roman depictions of recurve bows, after my interest in them had been aroused (any recurve bow must be a composite bow (they not necessarily the other way round)). Some I have saved on my hard disc.
Don't believe that composite bows were a privilege of the eastern horse peoples, while the Greeks and Romans were kind of helplessly running around with simple (=primitive) bows. It is BS.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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Here one example from 550-530 BC. Displayed at Altes Museum in Berlin in 2008.
There are more, some with more than one archer with recurve bow depicted, but you get the idea.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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Thanks, Stefan. Out of curiousity, have you ever tried to make one?
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Without doubt, the Parthians used them. They are depicted most famously perhaps on the bowl depicted on page 225 of Rome and her Enemies, edited by Jane Penrose. (Sorry I can't use the image - no scanner!)
I quote: 'The primary weapon of the light cavalrymen was the powerful, recurved composite bow constructed of layers of horn, wood and sinew. THe wooden core formed the frame and was relatively 'neutral'. The strips of horn were laid along the belly to resist compression. The sinew - dried, broken into fibres, saturated in glue and layered on the back - resisted tension....The ears of Parthian and Sassanian bows were extended and stiffened with horn, which increased the tension and controlled the release.'
The compund bows' power was one of the main reasons that the Parthian arrows could penetrate the Roman shields and armour at Carrhae in 53 BC. Plutarch recounts that 'strange missiles are the precursors of their (the Parthians) appearance, which pierce through every obstacle.' He also wrote: 'but making vigorous and powerful shots from bows which were large and mighty and curved so as to discharge their missiles with great force.'
Ordinary bows would not have had the power to do this.
During the research for The Forgotten Legion, I had the privilege to speak with a chap who basically does the bows for every major Hollywood film. He told me that there are only 2 men in the world at the moment who make such bows - one is a chap in Canada, with a very long Polish/Russian sounding name, who has a 5 year waiting list for his bows. The other is a British man called Ted McEwan, who is retired now. I spoke to Mr McEwan at length about the Parthian/Scythian type bows, and he was a mine of information.
Incidentally, there is a Yahoo group dedicated to this type of bow. Some good info to be had there. There's also a group in London (South Croydon Sacred Archers?) who use them, and who I have spoken with. A plan of mine, still unfulfilled, is to take up 9mm of plywood, some leather (to recreate the scutum) and then cover it with cotton and silk (according to Ted Mcwan, that would work like Kevlar) and see how the compound bows fare against it. (This has to do with my book, and how the heroes survive :mrgreen: ). I'm going to film it, and put on Youtube if it goes well!
Ben Kane, bestselling author of the Eagles of Rome, Spartacus and Hannibal novels.
Eagles in the Storm released in UK on March 23, 2017.
Aguilas en la tormenta saldra en 2017.
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Is there another book on the way then? I quite liked the story......
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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Off topic, but thanks for asking! The Silver Eagle came out in hardback in the UK in 2009 (paperback out on 29th April 2010), and the final part - The Road to Rome - comes out in August 2010 in the UK. In that are accounts of Caesar's battles in Alexandria, at Zela and Ruspina. I hope I've done them justice. You guys can tell me... :?
Ben Kane, bestselling author of the Eagles of Rome, Spartacus and Hannibal novels.
Eagles in the Storm released in UK on March 23, 2017.
Aguilas en la tormenta saldra en 2017.
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Quote:The compund bows' power was one of the main reasons that the Parthian arrows could penetrate the Roman shields and armour at Carrhae in 53 BC. Plutarch recounts that 'strange missiles are the precursors of their (the Parthians) appearance, which pierce through every obstacle.' He also wrote: 'but making vigorous and powerful shots from bows which were large and mighty and curved so as to discharge their missiles with great force.'
Ordinary bows would not have had the power to do this.
Be careful about placing too much emphasis on the difference between composite bows and self bows. There were many types of bows in the ancient world, each of which worked best at a typical size and strength but could be made stronger or weaker than average depending on the skill of the archer. Styles of arrow also affect things: the light reed with small bronze heads arrows popular in the ancient world can't absorb as much energy as more robust designs. You can make a self bow with a draw anywhere from 20 to 200 lbs draw, and the same is true for composite bows.
I think Parthian armies were effective because they had lots of good archers and horsemen, who could use the bows of the day effectively (and possibly could use stronger-than-average versions of the usual types of composite bow).
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I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
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