Beard slams Hawass over Rosetta Stone

[Epictetus]

I imagine everyone has heard that Zahi Hawass said he would drop his demands for the Rosetta Stone if the British Museum instead just loans it to Egpyt. It looks like Oxford's Mary Beard has finally gotten fed up with him.

I find myself suffering from an increasingly severe allergy to Zawi Hawass. He might once have been a good archaeologist, but he has become a nationalist media showman (complete with mad theories about famous ancient Egyptian graves, and a tv crew, plus a book signing, at his back). He appears to have a checklist of some icons he wants 'back' to Egypt -- as if they has been stolen.

I remember him on the Today programme a few years ago in discussion with some female descendant of Howard Carter (excavator of Tutankhamun). He was in full flow complaining about how the Brits has ripped everything off, when she politely pointed out that actually the whole Tut treasure had been left in Egypt.

"He might once have been a good archaeologist..."

Ouch.

[Matthew Amt]

I'd say she's being too charitable! Hawass is perfectly willing to shoot his mouth off about anything he believes, with amazing disregard for any silly facts. Check out his comments on page 2 of this article:

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/08/1 ... -giza.html

Well, he can't live forever...

Matthew

[Jona Lendering]

I was intrigued by this movie clip. ZH makes several remarks that we would call Anti-Semitic. Now it must be said for him that remarks like these are pretty common in the Arab world; he is just as ignorant as his compatriots. But the point I am making is a different one: a man in his position, with many international contacts, ought to know that he should not say these things. People who are so visible, should act with more sense of responsibility.

The New Yorker, BTW, had an interesting article on the man: here. Intrigueing quote: "Hawass's task is Egyptianize Egyptology by means of a personality cult".

[Epictetus]

Well, I confess that I like him when he shows up in documentaries. He seems to have a lot of enthusiasm without going over-the-top. I enjoy watching him in documentaries, but he seems a bit unhinged every other place he shows up. Some of the claims he has been involved with recently has made me take a second look at him, I guess.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Personally i find his statements getting more ridiculous every day.

However, as long as there are still several good archaologists able to work in Egypt without being thwarted thanx to Islamic fundamentalists, thats a good thing, so no matter what anyones views on ZH are, as long as he keeps up the division between science and religion its ok with me...



ah yes, the Elgin marbles should also be returned as all other archaeological artefacts nicked by the decendants of the Britons, Germanic tribesmen, Goths, and other culprits...

Furthermore, the United Nations should be disbanded, and every government in in countries around the mediterranean and European world which once were part of our beautiful Roman empire should once again surrender to Roman rule. That also counts for the Italian government.

M.VIB.M.

[Paullus Scipio]

....I see some time ago that the over-the-top claims by ZH about the imminent excavation of "Cleopatra's Tomb" have quietly died, without all the fanfare of the original claims........... :evil:

....BTW, Henk, would that be Republican, Late Republican ( the degenerate kind involving factions and Triumvirates) or Imperial Roman Rule that you would impose on us all?? hock: hock: :lol:

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Preferably republican ( the way Cato envisaged it ) when honour and virtus was still held high...

The degenerate later era which started with Sulla's reign of terror is less to my liking...

The Empire was not that great either, depending on Emperors, Vespasianus was ok. Trajanus also, as well as Hadrianus and some others...



M.VIB.M.

[Doc]

Henk,

You mentioned "our beautiful Roman empire" then you seem not to be too convinced about many aspects of it? How can that be.

Also, I see that you do not miss the opportunity to take shots at Italy. This is the same crap and nonsense that you pulled on the previous post about Italian archaeology. Will the mods, who correctly closed the last thread say something on this. It is a constant theme about Italy with this guy and frankly if none of the Italians on RAT do not want to say anything, I guess I will have to. You could not just say all the governments in Europe, which, would include the Italian since the word ALL is includsive. You had to make the separate comment about the Italian governement which has an underlying implication that I would like to hear from you. You seem to forget the Roman Empire was born out of Italy. So do everyone a favor and be a little more respectful towards Italy not an ass.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Doc, i find your lack of satyrical insight very amusing.

Romes empire, whether it was during the Republic as well as the later principate was of course, like ANY government of today, flawed... that is obvious.

Your entire mail consists of bickering which is useless in this instance... if i say Italy, i mean the country which was made after the fall of the Roman empire. Also, all other countries mentioned were made well after the fall of Rome.

Furtermore, you lack any insight into what the gest of the thing i wrote was... You dont see the humor in stating something even more ridiculous than all ZH's remarks combined...

Rome was not born out of Italy. Italy did not exist back then. Also, the region nowadays known as the Italian peninsula was colonised by Goths, Vandals, Marcomanni and other tribes after the fall of the western empire, who mixed with the ancient Romans.

The good things about Roman rule were law, accusatio in stead of inquisitio, freedom and acceptance of almost anty religion, lack of pure racism like we see today, less hindrance of zealot sects and intolerant religions, et cetera.

Also you seem to think i hate the Italians. I do not... never did, and never will.

Your cry for the mods is based on incorrect assumptions so therefore useless.

The one calling names here is you.

You call me an ass..... do you mean the animal? or someones behind? be frank, and be honest.

BTW your jumping on the barricades to save Italian honour is commendable but also totally unnessecary.

The day Omerta will be instated on this forum is the day dialogue dies.

Also: OFF TOPIC means OFF TOPIC, therefore also including humor, satire, silly remarks and what have you.

If you like serious debate, go to the serious section.

M.VIB.M.

[Jona Lendering]

....I see some time ago that the over-the-top claims by ZH about the imminent excavation of "Cleopatra's Tomb" have quietly died, without all the fanfare of the original claims........... :evil:

Nope: go here.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

“I saw that it was a dream of Kathleen, I then realized that the place had to be important since no one would have built anything there unless it was for an important figure,” Hawas said

Actually, he is on to something... but he lacks the ancient papiri i have in my cupboard....

The rooms hidden by the 20 by 20 centimeter !! doors lead to a corridor which after about 5 months of walking lead to this place, where Cleopatra's and Alexander's body were taken in secret:



However, the remains only rested there for about 3 weeks...

The intergalactic council decided to move the remains once more due to danger of exposure to the conquistadores so at the moment the secret passageway leads to this pyramid:



which in turn leads to this painting of Cleopatra:



Behind it is a small lever, and if you move that upwards you will eventually be transported to the final resting place of both Cleopatra and Alexander, which is on a moon near here (see arrow):





Of course i wont divulge the exact location, since otherwise mister Hawass will run off with my personal scoop....

M.VIB.M.

[Doc]

Henk,

Bickering? useless yammering to the mods? Is that all you have? That is interesting considering that after your post on the Calchide armor, the thread was closed. I wonder why that was? Perhaps because after your comments about Italian archaelogy the thread was going sour and to avoid further retaliation it was cut down? How is your insight on this one?

I do not really need a history lesson from you. I think that since I am professor of chemistry I have and can handle this on my own.

I did not say you were an ass. Try to read correctly: more respectful towards Italy not an ass. Do you see me saying: You are an ass? It simply means do not become one since it is apparent that you are educated. How is your insight on this one? Is this a better explanation?

Omerta' ? That is quite funny that you should use such a term. However, on a forum, dialogue dies when problems arise and impasses are made as was the case with the bell cap. Dialogue does not die on a forum because someone is asked to bite their tongue.

You say you like Italians. Great I am happy for you. However, I do not care if you do or do not. I am not trying to suggest or convert people into liking Italians. All I am saying is that if you do not, keep it to yourself. You say that you do, fabulous. From now on, I will know and when I think that your remarks regarding Italy as you did in the other post, are off color, I will just say to myself, this guy likes Italians.

As far as being more out there than Hawass, that is you opinion and when I want to hear your opinion about me, I will ask you for it. As far as you saying that I lack insight throughout your post I think that you are hardly in ANY position to talk to me about insight.

Anyway, back to the post. Matt, when I read that article where ZH just denied that anything new was known it reminded me of when I was doing research early in my career. I remember asking a well known chemist why I was not getting the yield he reported from a chemical reaction. I did not receive a response for several weeks. Finally, I received an e-mail where he said a student in his group did it and he did not know where the data was and could not help me out. So much for scientists and academicians saying or reporting something and magically the data when asked is no longer available or can be found.

[john m roberts]

Just loan the Rosetta Stone, eh? Then they'll give it back? I hope the British Museum remembers the Ptolemys, who asked the kings of the Hellenistic world to loan them rare manuscripts so that they could be copied for the Library. Thay'd send back the originals, no fooling, honest Injun and cross my heart. Of course, the original owners invariably got a copy and the Ptolemys kept the originals.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Well there are 1:1 copies of the rosetta stone.....



anyone ever imagined the other things Napoleon might have stolen??

M.VIB.M.

(ps Paolo, lack of satyrical insight is completely different than lack of scientific insight... i am a pure Alpha, and Beta science i know nothing about, nor would i ever come to understand it. Thats my lack of mathematics and logic... i just dont see it. I do understand what you mean though.... with the lack of data story... hence my "proof" of the real location of Cleopatra's grave LOL...
btw, the chalcide armor is an outright fake, and will remain fake unless a spectroscopy or whatever beta scientists use to determine metallurgical age, proves othewise. the thread was closed because further discussion about this hideous piece of muck was not interesting enough to keep the thread open.... )

[Doc]

Henk,

Fair enough. No problem and nothing personal towards you. Believe me, far be it from me to start "something".

As fas as that armor is concerned, I will refrain from any comment pending on an analysis although I must agree that it is suspicious.


I could also tell you stories upon stories of strange happenings to "data". Here is another: A friend of mine was fired after being at a job for a few months because the data that was being put out by a well known scientist had severe flaws. When my friend pointed out the problem, the scientist became frustrated and retreated into his quarters. A few days later, he approached my friend and questioned him as to why there was a problem. My friend replied that what the previous assistant to scientist had been observing was noise from the instrument not an actual signal due to the sample. The scientist said that it was impossible although my friend physically proved that the previous data could not be reproduced on a better calibrated machine but that my friend's could. A few days later without explanation, he was fired.

Oh well..........