A question on Greek helmet Crests

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Hi all, I am wondering about crests for Corinthian and other Greek helmets.

In the re-enactment world a lot of helmets these days come with crests, but in the finds in museums there are but a few helmets which have either thw remains of holes for "crests", or attachment points for crests...

Is there any consensus about the usage of crests by Hoplitai ? were they widely used ? did all of them use a crest ?

i am wondering about this since in museum finds i dont see that much proof on crests, while on earthenware i do, which confuses me a little.

M.VIB.M.

[hoplite14gr]

Crests made by organic material didn't make it through time, but in art crests (at least the simplest forms) appear so often that probably were widespread.
Kind regards

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Yes, i understand, but where are the remains of the attachment points on the helmets in the Museums ?

M.VIB.M.

[Paullus Scipio]

The real answer is that in Art, down to after the Persian Wars, the Warriors depicted are Gods and Heroes, and hence wear lavish equipment complete with helmet crests and the latest/best body armour.
The reality is somewhat different. An explanation such as that commonly given in the past - they were organic so they didn't survive - just does not hold up under examination. The vast majority found are crestless, and show no trace of crest attachment fittings. ( crests were commonly removable for storage and to prevent "crest flop" - a problem re-enactors commonly encounter).

After the Persian Wars, we start to see real soldiers depicted - the 'Heroes of Marathon' were deemed fit to join the Pantheon of Heroes in iconography, and significantly we start to see Hoplites shown with crestless helmets and no body armour or greaves in iconography. One cannot be certain, but it may be that crests were the preserve of officers/file leaders, or among the wealthiest, which often amounted to the same thing. Thus most would appear in the front rank - which would give a ratio of roughly 1 crested to 8-or-10 crestless. This would be consistent with finds, where the vast majority are crestless. The idea that all, or even a majority of Greek Helmets had crests is a "Greek Myth" , I'm afraid. D lol:

Certainly if it were a matter of personal taste or wealth, even a removable crest popular with admiring girls in your city's festivals could be a handicap in battle, and might be prudently left behind.

Everybody remembered what happened to Paris in his duel with Menelaus, right? :wink:

[hoplite14gr]

Hmm the Nereidae gluphs and Kunsttistorices Museum Viena glyphs show quite alot of crested helmets.
Pottery after 460 B.C shows quite a lot of hoplites with crests.

Most excavated helemets were found in even lousier state than depicted in museums.
Small metalic object like crests attachers break and get lost easily.

The metalic items were expensive but decoration was within the means of middle class farmer
No one can prove byond reasonable doubt that all crests were made of horsehair.

Crest is no hindrance in battle or hoplitodromy and I speak of personal experience of violent movements with crested helmet.
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh84 ... C_1311.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh84 ... G_8769.jpg
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh84 ... 840026.jpg

Kind regards