Mural Crown

[Jona Lendering]

I am looking for ancient representations of a mural crown, I mean of the type used as a decoration in the Roman army. I have seen modern reconstructions, and I have seen pre-Roman representations (e.g., Tyche); but I cannot remember having seen Roman representations. What have I missed?

[Epictetus]

Is Agrippa wearing a mural crown here? Is this what you mean?

[Jona Lendering]

Thanks, just what I needed!

[Praefectusclassis]

You mean the right one? I'd say that's a Corona navalis as befitting Agrippa. Jona, you might want to take a look at AW III-3, p.41 and 44 for ancient depictions of corona muralis

[Epictetus]

Yes, I meant the one on the right. I thought that the mural crown had the "battlements."

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/thayer/e/r ... orona.html

Edit: here is one that looks like the ships' prows which I thought was on the naval crown.

[Praefectusclassis]

It's not the battlements that are the problem, it's the prows sticking out. There's a prominent one on the front and less detailed ones on the side.

[Jona Lendering]

You mean the right one? I'd say that's a Corona navalis as befitting Agrippa.

I needed a picture of the way battlements were shown, so it suits my purposes.

[Epictetus]

Hmmm. Well, Jona got what he was looking for, but now my curiousity is aroused.

So what is Agrippa wearing? Is it a mural crown, naval crown, or is it depicting both crowns? Does anyone have any ideas?

[Jona Lendering]

what is Agrippa wearing? Is it a mural crown, naval crown, or is it depicting both crowns?

As far as I know, the naval crown was very rare. Pompey may have been the only other recipient. (Jasper will know this better.) The point is that there will not be a real tradition - or less of a tradition than for, say, a corona civica, which was awarded more frequently and was represented on buildings. The naval crown may, therefore, have been invented several times anew, and what we see is Agrippa's naval crown; other admirals may have had different naval crowns. But I may be wrong.

[Praefectusclassis]

IIRC Pliny mentions the (very few) recipients of the naval crown, true. They do turn up more in epigraphy later on, but seem to have become - because of its rarity - a prestigious award for consulares that has absolutely bupkiss to do with actual naval warfare.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

There is a colour plate of Agrippa wearing the rather ridiculous looking crown in the newRoman Navies Book!
How to make your subordinates feel awkward? Reward them with something they can't refuse to wear...... :lol:

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Also take a look at the ancient Cybele crowns on statues, they also come close to a corona muralis imho

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... .AA.19.jpg

M.VIB.M.

PS also:

http://photos.imageevent.com/aymar55/ro ... n%2031.jpg

http://kt.classy.be/beelden/410_017.gif

http://www.roma-victrix.com/dona/img/do ... elas13.jpg

[Jona Lendering]

Also take a look at the ancient Cybele crowns on statues, they also come close to a corona muralis imho

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... .AA.19.jpg

You get the point. There's an oriental connection. Assyrian queens were represented with mural crowns. This is the oldest one I've found; it's Elamite, ninth century BCE.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

thats indeed very similar, did you also ever contemplate about the earliest depictions of st Mary? she, in early medieval imagery and also byzantine imagery is often seen wearing the "Cybele" crown.

M.VIB.M.

[Jona Lendering]

thats indeed very similar, did you also ever contemplate about the earliest depictions of st Mary? she, in early medieval imagery and also byzantine imagery is often seen wearing the "Cybele" crown.

Do you have an example?