The lance of Olyndicus

[Retógenes]

According to Florus (Epitomae 1.33), the celtiberian war chief Olyndicus (Olíndico in Spanish sources) gained the leadership of some tribes (the celtiberian devotio), because he wielded a silver lance that was sent by the gods from the sky. (for the reference in latin see http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Epitome_o ... e?match=la )

I have just two questions (in bold), feel free to participate please.

Could this god be Lug, the celtiberian version of the celtic Lugh? It is known that Lugh had a spear as its weapon. Florus relates to Olyndicus as a summus vir and dux, we don't known what he exactly means with that, but we can suppose that apellation is given to a renowned warrior, maybe a noble (reputed warriors and nobles used to be riders). And celtiberian chivalry was feared by the romans, who acknowledged them as better than the numidians. Also, the lancer is the most depicted warrior in celtiberian art. So, could this be the lance version of the Lugh's spear? (we know about the spear of Cuchulainn, that was also made by the gods).

The big problem here is that in Spanish, although there are many academic studies about the celtiberians, the word for spear and lance is the same (lanza), so maybe nobody has realized about this yet.

I known that there are some experts about the celtiberians here, they will be welcomed and appreciated here of course, but everybody is encouraged to participate. Thanks!

PD: I've also tried to look for some depiction related to this topic in celtiberian art, but I've only found this modern painting (it's cool but of no actual use for me):



Actual Celtiberian art I've found, but I don't known if it could be useful, as I'm not an expert (I known that in many celtiberian coins, riders with lances were depicted):

Celtiberian rider with lance:



Vase of the Warriors:

[D B Campbell]

According to Florus (Epitomae 1.33), the celtiberian war chief Olyndicus (Olíndico in Spanish sources) gained the leadership of some tribes (the celtiberian devotio), because he wielded a silver lance that was sent by the gods from the sky.

Unfortunately, Florus (Epitome 1.33.14) refers to a silver spear!

[Retógenes]

Indeed. Hastam is latin for spear. But spears were also used as lances, didn't they? Maybe I didn't choose the right words (english is not my native tongue). As far as I know, the celtiberian lancea was used by infantry and chivalry. If I'm mistaken, I would be grateful to be corrected.

[Dan Howard]

In most texts the terms are used interchangeably. It usually isn't possible to tell whether a writer is talking about a mounted lance, a thrusting spear, or a throwing spear. Even pilums are sometimes described being used as thrusting spears. Is the writer describing the pilum being used for thrusting, or is the writer confusing the terminology and simply using "pilum" instead of "hasta"? It depends on the writer. When Caesar writes about pilums being used for thrusting at Alesia we can be pretty sure that he is using the correct terms but not so for many other writers. In poetry we find that the writer uses the word that best fits the meter of the poem with no thought as to whether it is the correct term or not. We have the same problem with English writers. How many use the generic "spear" to describe all three weapons?

[Retógenes]

In most texts the terms are used interchangeably. It usually isn't possible to tell whether a writer is talking about a mounted lance, a thrusting spear, or a throwing spear. Even pilums are sometimes described being used as thrusting spears. Is the writer describing the pilum being used for thrusting, or is the writer confusing the terminology and simply using "pilum" instead of "hasta"? It depends on the writer. When Caesar writes about pilums being used for thrusting at Alesia we can be pretty sure that he is using the correct terms but not so for many other writers. In poetry we find that the writer uses the word that best fits the meter of the poem with no thought as to whether it is the correct term or not. We have the same problem with English writers. How many use the generic "spear" to describe all three weapons?

Good point Dan. When I have some spare time I'll try to add more info. Meanwhile, I've found an interesting article with a section about Olyndicus: http://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volu ... a_6_7.html

[D B Campbell]

Indeed. Hastam is latin for spear. But spears were also used as lances, didn't they?

My point was simply that, if you are looking for a lancea, you've found a hasta.