Inexpensive Kopis/Xiphos option?

[Karolus]

There aren't too many choices for affordable but functional Greek-type swords out there...

Check this guy out:
http://traditionalarcherybows.com./

Several possibilities for Kopis, and a xiphos or two as well....
(just beware the "history lessons". Some are okay, others, not so...)

The "Ares Xiphos" is a bit heavier than it should be, and doesn't really look all that accurate (although the basic "grip tongue" construction is somewhat accurate). The Kopis-type swords, on the other hand, are bit plain-looking, but would work quite well, I think....

The scabbards are probably not all that accurate either.... but are probably modifiable.... or, you could home-make your own...

For an inexpensive option, I think these might beat Deepeeka....

(oh, and he does make a copy of the "300" sword, like we needed another one of those... still, it's a nice-looking and functional copy...)

[Lýsandros]

In my humble opinion:

Even though I dont like the Falcatoid Kopis swords from Deepeeka, their weapons are miles ahead of that what you have posted. The only positive I can see about those swords is that they look very solid and probably wont break easily. The scabbards are a disaster

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I don't knwo about quality,but at least there are enough blades there that someone could modify. But they would need heavy modification,changes all the hilts,and also improving the blade shape. For those with tools and experience to do it,it could be a cheap and good option. And of course abandon the scabards.
But my suggestion would be to wait a bit longer,as currently we are developping a greek sword with DSC
Khairete
Giannis

[Virilis]

But my suggestion would be to wait a bit longer,as currently we are developping a greek sword with DSC
Khairete
Giannis

Giannis, can you perhaps tell me more about this (which kind of sword, xiphos or kopis?). I would love to have a good greek sword !

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Leaf shaped sword,about 50cm blade length, based on one in Vergina,but construction method of the hilt that is identical to swords from early 5th century bc. Combination of iron and bone. I ordered for mild steel blade as it's closer to what they would have,and since i don't think that many would want to really fight with it. I won't have a "tang" since like the ancients the blade continues the shape of the hilt and on there the two plates of the grip are nailed. Well,this sword has a bot more complicated hilt construction but my point is there is no risk for fake tangs. It should be battle ready.(ok it won't be forged)
I don't have photos yet as i don't know if they have started construction yet. I will inform you when it's ready.
Khaire
Giannis

[Virilis]

Thanks Giannis !

I have been drooling over Manning Imperials Xiphos but this seems to be the "real deal"!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

The manning imperial xiphos is good but has one major disadvantage. It replicates an etruscan sword (one found in Campovolano) and etruscan swords were a bit different than the mainland greek ones,both in the hilt and dcabard.
Lets see what we will achieve with DSC.
Khaire
Giannis

[Virilis]

The manning imperial xiphos is good but has one major disadvantage. It replicates an etruscan sword (one found in Campovolano) and etruscan swords were a bit different than the mainland greek ones,both in the hilt and dcabard.
Lets see what we will achieve with DSC.
Khaire
Giannis

Yes, I know that the Manning Imperial sword was made using that example. Anyway it is even better that you are helping to make a sword closer to the greek originals :wink: !

[Karolus]

But my suggestion would be to wait a bit longer,as currently we are developping a greek sword with DSC
Khairete
Giannis

Now that would be exciting -- especially if you can keep the weight UNDER 3 lbs!!!

[Peter Raftos]

Albion Armoury / Albion Swords used to make a hand-made one. It was a limited edition museum-quality reproduction. Albion sold out of these quickly but they have informed me by e-mail there has been talk of doing a new version. Keep your eyes on the site for any updates.
The price and dimensions are unknown.

[Kineas]

If you check out some of the MArtial Arts websites, you'll find pretty good quality Philippine swords--that make a fantastic simple kopis. Note that if you look at vase art, you'll see lots of representations of very simply hilted swords with no cross guard or a very simple one and NO back/guard coming around from the pommel to cover the hand, which I can't remember seeing in the period I like (550-450 BC). Some of the Phillipine sword shave very finely made blades--some have the slim lines of the cavalry kopis...

and they're cheap. And I don't usually advocate cheap!

Giannis, I'm very much in favor of your project, but we need 25 types of swords, not one. So we should all continue to look for more acceptable examples.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Cgristian,i think you were talking only about kopides/machaires when you talked about no guards and no pommels?
This is correct. And i have seen at least one such example from the period you like. One that it used to belong to John Piscopo and that he had posted about in the sword forum. Very nice lines in that sword. And i liked the almost non existent guard and pommel

I agree we need many more swords. I ordered this sword for personal use,but in any case it's beneficial to make it available for many re-enactors. I am willing to help developping other kinds of swords,though i'm not sure anyone would make one if they didn't have an order first. So perhaps you can order many of them through your group,and then we can develop different types. Of course i have to see the quality first,since i haven't see the sample yet. DSC told me the blade was ready and they would go for the grip,and that i would have photos soon,but i didn't get any yet. We have overloaded them i think! The sandals are also in production.

However,Christian,this sword i opted for is made in one of the most popular ways that lasted for quite some time from early fifth to early fouth century at least. I can't have exact date for the earliest one i have seen,could even be late 6th century. The latest ones are the ones from Vergina and Derveni.
What does this mean? That if one ordered from the same manufacturer it would be nice to ask for different shape of blade or different kinds of pommels. There were hemispherical pommels as well as cylindrical. They should ask for different grip matterials,like bone or wood. I would even ask a different kind of wood just to make my sword a bit different than the next. I would ask for thicker,longer or shorter guard(this will be iron). Even different decoration. At last there were different kinds of blades with different midribs or no midribs.

Trying to help individuality developing helmets with another indian manufacturer,i gave much info on a specific chalkidean helmet,and then i provided photos of many other cheek guards that would fit in that same helmet,and the manufacturer was willing to give that option to customers. Also i tried to give them the option of nose guard or not and especially ear holes or not. Lets see how this project will go. After all i'm just givving advice in them.

Anyway the point is that the last period there is great development in greek re-enacting equipmnet and this may work as a circle: Better equipment-more re-enactors-more orders-more manufacturers-better products/quality/variety

Khairete
Giannis

[Kineas]

Too right, Giannis!

And you, sir, are at the point of the wedge!

Seriously, though, your idea of a cycle is spot on--as we get more manufacturer time and better kit, more people will fall in love with the period and we'll have more recruits, etc etc.

The head of the Hellenic Film Board has suggested that he'll support our Marathon event. Fingers crossed...

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Of course i forgot to mention that indeed philipine swords can be spot-on for a kopis. It happens however that because the current reproductions of kopides are better than the leaf shaped swords,many re-enactors opt for a kopis,which is inaccurate. Kopides did exist but the xiphos was by far the most common sword.
Do use a philipine sword for a machaire though,but remember to change the grip and make a new scabard.
Khairete
Giannis

EDIT: in the previous post i said that the latest examples of such swords were the oned from Vergina and Derveni. This is actually not entirely true. Hellenistic swords were made mainly in the same fashion. Their lines changed somewhat but the idea was the same. Also the scabard lines changed somewhat. The scabard of Philip's sword shows the development towards the hellenistic swords,compared to earlier fifth century ones. However the swords itself kept almost the same lines,to the point that you can't tell exactly the date by the looks of it. This is actually very handy for us. It is also not true or at least very simplistic that blades went shorter as time passed. There are early blades that vary considerably in length and width,and i'd say most are well under 60 cm. The one i ordered will be about 50cm. Actually some fifth century swords in Thessaloniki were very narrow and well under 50cm long.
Khairete
Giannis

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I look forward to seeing the fruit of your efforts with DSC Giannis!
I would prefer an accurate Greek Xiphos over a Kopis!

Christain, glad to hear you are getting more official interest in this project of yours. 8)