Goth found in Gloucester

[fasta]

Sorry if this has already gone up this morning but I couldn't find it on a site search.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/glou ... 298825.stm

The remains of a Goth have been found around 400AD in date.

[Gregg]

I find the comment about the vegetarian diet interesting. I wouldn't expect that if he was indeed the high status individual they believe.

Gregg

[ioannes sebald]

Why,i wonder,are they suggesting he was a Gothic mercenary?,i hope it isn't on the fact he was found with a knife,for all anyone knows he might have been a merchant,or,am i missing something here?.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, silver belt, knife.....could be a well off mercenary?

[Robert]

I wonder why everyone cries "warrior", when the grave finds do not indicate a soldier at all. Everyone carried a knife, they are very handy implements, so this chap could just as well have been a civilian trader. Merchant instead of mercenary. I know this is Roman ARMY talk, but that does not make all and sundry belong to the fighting fraterinty. There was a lot of trade in the Roman empire and a great many people were involved as farmers, artisans and traders. We also know from accounts merchants traveled the length of the empire. So this poor fellow who met his end a long way from home could have had very peacefull inclinations.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, you could well be right!
I wonder who knocked his teeth out!

[Robert Vermaat]

As the article already suggested, this is quite an old find, now re-interprested. Or rather, old interpretations being re-affirmed. The 'Goth' was already known as such much earlier, due to the style of the buckles, which are interpreted as being a military style, and from the East. The chemical tests now seem to to re-affirm that easterly interpretation.
Another reason to look for a military origin of the man was the burial spot. Kingsholm was the old site of the Claudian fort.

I know, I know, nothing proof of the man being a soldier - but then again, a wealthy trader of the late 4th-early 5th century; would he be buried just with military-style buckles and a knife, or with something more akin to his trade perhaps?

Below an image of the burial , aka 'Gloucester inhumation B1':

[Alanus]

Thanks for the illustration-- worth a thousand words.

This guy could hardly fit in his sarcophagus! hock:

Every metal item is in relation to its position when the man was interred. So seems the case. The buckles are at the waist and feet. The knife is located on the outside of the right leg. This indicates that the individual wore it as a form of akinakes. By the year 400, this position-- strapped to the right leg (sometimes the left, as we see in Saracen illustrations)-- was used for both daggers and smaller knives, either for protection, utility, or carving up the gamey boar. It was not neccessarily a military item, but it extended from a Sarmatian warrior ethnos. It's an Iranian tradition, adopted by the Goths, Vandals, and even the Saracens. A very interesting individual.

[Medicus matt]

C+Pd from my other post on the subject....

Given the infuriating lack of relevent detail in the article I contacted a friend at Gloucester Museum who gave me this....

The suggestion that he may have been a `Goth' is just one suggestion and of the most likely barbarian groups it's one that more people have heard of so gets the most attention. He has been called the `Gloucester Goth' ever since he was found more than 35 years ago as a name rather than an assertion that he was a real Goth. The stable isotope and collagen analysis only revealed that he had a different diet to contemporary Romano-Britons and that he grew up in a cold climate to the east of a line roughly between where the Vistula enters the Baltic south to the Danube rather than demonstrating an ethnicity. I don't think that the metalwork has been reported on since 1975, so may need to be re-assessed.

I've got some pics of the finds which I'll post when I get back from Crete.

[Alanus]

Hello, Matt

Some pics would be great, so please do post them.
According to your associate at the GM, this person is not necessarily a Goth. But the wearing of an akinakes at the outer leg, or a knife in the Sarmatian style, could be linked to few ethnic groups, basically Sarmatians and those who came under Sarmatian influence.

There is also the probability that he was a Christian. The Goths were all Arians by 400, and extensive missionary work by Bishop Amantius in Pannonia converted most of the Alans. The Eothar Alans that settled east of Brittany were Christians. The Taifali were early Christians; and one of their group was the famed holy man Senoch, who lived in the outskirts of Tours. Important in the context of this grave, we see no display of weaponry. To the Goths and Alans, this was the "promise of usstass," of reaching a "himinims" (heaven) where weapons were no longer needed.

[Robert Vermaat]

Important in the context of this grave, we see no display of weaponry. To the Goths and Alans, this was the "promise of usstass," of reaching a "himinims" (heaven) where weapons were no longer needed.

Or: he was a merchant.

Or (better): he was a regular Roman soldier, who did not take any weapons into their graves because the weapons belonged to the army. Federates and mercenaries did, regular army did not.

[Alanus]

Both good points.

The wrench in the works (if the BBC article was correct and the archaeological drawing was accurate) is the circumstances of the burial. He was interred in a sarcophagus inside a mausoleum. This is not indicitive of a regular soldier in the Roman army, but hints of some kind of noble background. Perhaps an officer? :?:

Or a merchant who had his face busted in a foreign land? :roll:

[Robert Vermaat]

The wrench in the works (if the BBC article was correct and the archaeological drawing was accurate) is the circumstances of the burial. He was interred in a sarcophagus inside a mausoleum. This is not indicitive of a regular soldier in the Roman army, but hints of some kind of noble background. Perhaps an officer? :?:

Maybe not if he died while serving, but no unusual fafter retirement. If (IF!) indeed a Goth serving in the regula army, I could envision perhaps an officer or even a leaderof a group of Goths, serving in the Roman army?

[Alanus]

Maybe not if he died while serving, but no unusual fafter retirement. If (IF!) indeed a Goth serving in the regula army, I could envision perhaps an officer or even a leaderof a group of Goths, serving in the Roman army?

Robert,

Evidently (according to BBC rumor) this guy was somewhere around 30 years old when he had his teeth knocked out. What we might call "early retirement."

A leader of a group of Goths! Well, its speculative but what about a unit like the Equites Taifali, actually laiti not regulars. They would have had men grown between the Vistula and lower Danube (the origin claimed for this character), people like Goths, Alans, Taifali, perhaps a sociable Hun. :wink:

[Medicus matt]

Pics as promised.
[attachment=2:ojs8fh8f]<!-- ia2 glgoth2.JPG<!-- ia2 [/attachment:ojs8fh8f]
[attachment=1:ojs8fh8f]<!-- ia1 glgothbuckle.JPG<!-- ia1 [/attachment:ojs8fh8f]
[attachment=0:ojs8fh8f]<!-- ia0 glgothside2.JPG<!-- ia0 [/attachment:ojs8fh8f]