Are the French Celtic?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I have Russian/German hock: Scots/Irish/American/Canadian +Greek Canadian Genes......= Roman Re-enactor

My culture is a little confused...to say the least!! :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

[John1]

"So, assuming that the "Celtic" culture apparently derived from the northern Alpine region (Hallstattkultur) I wonder how it came that the Hallstatt people conquered all of Western Europe... populated it anew... were driven out again... stayed only in certain places of far Western Europe... "

doesn't look that way I'm afraid, two very different "Celtic" groups seems to be the post 1920's news.....

“ The 'Celts' of Ireland and the Western Isles are not, as far as I can see from the genetic evidence, related to the Celts who spread south and east to Italy, Greece and Turkey from the heartlands of Hallstadt and La Tene...during the first millennium BC...The genetic evidence shows that a large proportion of Irish Celts, on both the male and female side, did arrive from Iberia at or about the same time as farming reached the Isles." - (Blood of the Isles -Brain Sykes 2006)

[Agraes]

That's calling them Celts who is confusive. It has more to do with multisecular contacts between populations on the Atlantic shores, who also adopted celtic culture and languages.

[John1]

That's calling them Celts who is confusive. It has more to do with multisecular contacts between populations on the Atlantic shores, who also adopted celtic culture and languages.

I'll go with that, multi-secular and multi cellular, this dna stuff is still very embryonic and open to HUGE amounts of interpretation, just another spoke in a very big wheel of interpretation, with new info arriving every day. A science worth watching over the coming years and decades though especially when you get interesting/relevant interpretations like the link on hte Sub Roman Cavalry discussion.

http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.pdf

[Epictetus]

It appears that it is good timing to ask this question. The BBC is reporting on an ambitious plan by a French Ministry to do a study on national identity. So maybe this will help answer how modern French view themselves.

[Kolba]

Today the French are not seeing their ancestors in the Germanic Franks, who left behind their language and name, not the ancient Romans, who gave them the language and high culture, but the Celts, or Gauls, after they inherit intellect, fortitude and all the qualities of mind - the tendency to chatter, their love of good food and precious wines. For me the dwellers of British Islands - to be exact: Welsh, Scots and Irish - and are more proud of their Celtic ancestors

[authun]

Do the modern day French consider themselves Celtic(Gauls) or more related to the Germans(Franks)....
Johnny

Some french historians describe the french revolution as the final victory of the Gauls over the Franks.

best
authun

[caiusbeerquitius]

"So, assuming that the "Celtic" culture apparently derived from the northern Alpine region (Hallstattkultur) I wonder how it came that the Hallstatt people conquered all of Western Europe... populated it anew... were driven out again... stayed only in certain places of far Western Europe... "

doesn't look that way I'm afraid, two very different "Celtic" groups seems to be the post 1920's news.....

“ The 'Celts' of Ireland and the Western Isles are not, as far as I can see from the genetic evidence, related to the Celts who spread south and east to Italy, Greece and Turkey from the heartlands of Hallstadt and La Tene...during the first millennium BC...The genetic evidence shows that a large proportion of Irish Celts, on both the male and female side, did arrive from Iberia at or about the same time as farming reached the Isles." - (Blood of the Isles -Brain Sykes 2006)

No, it looks like you misunderstood what I wrote...

[caiusbeerquitius]

Do the modern day French consider themselves Celtic(Gauls) or more related to the Germans(Franks)....
Johnny

Some french historians describe the french revolution as the final victory of the Gauls over the Franks.

best
authun

Sounds like Erich van Däniken logical reasoning.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Welsh, Scots and Irish

their love of good ... precious wines

What?

Honestly, do you have any references for what you are saying here?

[Rumo]

Some french historians describe the french revolution as the final victory of the Gauls over the Franks.

I know there were some 17th-18th century French writers (Saint-Simon, Boulainvilliers) believing the aristocrats descend from Franks (the archetype of the free) and commoners from Gauls (the enslaved), but is anyone holding such ideas today?

[Crispvs]

Here in England it is common to speak of things which are to do with France as 'Gallic', a term which is synonymous with 'French'. This of course says nothing significant about the genetic makeup of the different populations. But then, culture itself has little to do with one's genetic makeup. It has instead everything to do with the spread of language and ideas.

I think that it is probably the case that most people in England think of themselves as 'English', regardless of their exact genetic makeup. Similarly, the 'Celtic' identity of Scotland, and parts of Wales has much more to do with feelings of marginalisation in local populations than any true examination of ancestry. Genetic studies since the late 1960s have shown the 'Germanic' genes are commonly found in people from the east of England and since the early 1970s there has been the suggestion in academia that heavy Saxon settlement may already have been taking place in Eastern Britain as early as the mid 3rd Century AD. Further 'Germanic' genes would have been added to the local mix of genes by Germanic federates who were serving in Britain as early as the AD360s. This appears to have continued in 'Sub Roman' Britain. We are told that Vortigern first brought in German federates, but as we know that there was already a long history of this in Britain it would be just as likely that other kings in the various kingdoms of fifth and sixth century Britain would also have used Germanic federates, who would probably have eventually become part of the local population, which may well account for the 'Germanic' genes of people from parts of Britain far removed from the east coast. This of course would predate the spread of Germanic warbands in the fifth and sixth century, who would have added further Germanic genes but at the same time would quickly have mixed genetically with the people who were already there, as their kings are known to have done. By the early seventh century 'Germanic' genes would probably have been widely spread through the overall British population, even if those genes were in the minority on each persons DNA spirals.

From what I understand, most people in Britain who have been tested have DNA which shows their British ancestry to go back to at least the neolithic period. Since that time of course a few more people have come in from outside to add their genes to the mix and a number of cultures have swept over them, changing their language and their way of thinking and doing things from time to time, and adding a few more markers to their genetic makeup which can then be identified by selective testing. I would assume that the same thing would apply to the French.

Crispvs

[Kosios]

Last year i was in a reenactment event in a little country village in France with some other italian reenactors; we were there as northern Italy Gauls. Well, a very common question from people (not specifically into history and reenactment) was like: "You are italian, why do you reenact Gauls? You should reenact Romans, WE should reenact Gauls!". Of course the statement French = Gaul, Italian = Roman is historically senseless; things are much more complicated. But, in my opinion, my experience shows that for common french people this XIX century "vulgata" is still alive. Notice that our camp was right in front of the ruins of a ROMAN theater!

[Robert Vermaat]

We are told that Vortigern first brought in German federates

Who said that? It's slander and we will talk to our lawyer about it! We never did such a thing! Buhu!

:wink:

[Ron Andrea]

I believe you were first slandered by one Gildas, an obscure cleric from or about whom hardly anyone has heard since.