How do you throw a Pilum?

[Marcus Octavius Rufus]

Salve everyone,

I am a first time poster but I have been lurking for a while now which goes to show how much great information there already is on this site since. I have questions all the time and seem to always find the answer I need. However after a search this time I did not find what I was looking for. I think I understand the basics (3 steps and throw with shield in hand) but the details have eluded me. Where do you hold the pilum(center, just behind the block, somewhere else)? How do you throw it (Like a football, like an Olympic throw, another way)? Also in the construction of the pilum, where does the balance point tend to be and how does that relate to where you hold it when throwing?

Lots of questions and any insight would help me greatly. Thank you in advance!

[M. Demetrius]

Welcome to RAT and a maze of information at your behest by nothing but a few mouse clicks. If you get lost in the labyrinth, just wait a little bit, someone else will wander past. But beware the Minotaur. :lol:

Lots of questions. Generally, all pole weapons are thrown by holding them very near the balance point. Just rest the thing over your palm-up hand and find the balance. There's no exact way to say "hold a pilum x distance from the block, because the weights of the woods used, the length and diameter of the metal end are too variable. Usually, it's right near the back of the block, though...but you'll know when you throw it.

If you notice the "Olympic" throw, the thrower runs like 50 feet or something. We don't have that kind of space, usually, and it would be hard to keep a formation together with that kind of motion. Some people can throw with only two steps, others use three. If you're in a group, find out what the other people do, and learn to do it that way. If you're not, well, keep your approach as short as you can, and visualize that there are friendly soldiers at both sides, perhaps sort of close, and learn not to swing your shield any more than is absolutely necessary. You won't make many friends at an event if you smack them in the knee with your scutum's metal edge.... :wink:

[Robert]

Welcome! There seems little point in taking short running steps to throw the pilum. It is better thrown from standstill, allowing more cover from the shield you are holding. The reason to take two steps forward is the nasty buttspike at the rear, which, when you draw back your arm to throw, could impale your buddies in the second rank. So in a closed formation with the enemy closing, two steps are taken forward by the first rank. The arm is drawn back and on command the pilum is unleashed with a mighty heave, using arm, shoulder and abdominal muscles, rotating the body. The second rank can then step up, the first rank lowers themselves behind their shields and blam, second volley rips into the oncoming horde. Formation and shield wall remain unbroken, first two ranks are in position to meet what is left of the incoming charge. The pilum is basicly a short range missile weapon.

[Magnus]

"The pilum is basicly a short range missile weapon."

I think some people get the misconception that it was anything more than that...most people's exposure to anything to do with javelins comes from the olympics. Something completely modern and quite out of context. You said it very well Robert.

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

So in a closed formation with the enemy closing, two steps are taken forward by the first rank. The arm is drawn back and on command the pilum is unleashed with a mighty heave, using arm, shoulder and abdominal muscles, rotating the body. The second rank can then step up, the first rank lowers themselves behind their shields and blam, second volley rips into the oncoming horde. Formation and shield wall remain unbroken, first two ranks are in position to meet what is left of the incoming charge.

Interesting. I always wondered how they fired their volleys in a closed formation. Is this scenario based on ancient texts or reenacting experience? And how many files deep would/could a formation of legionaries be at most, to avoid a hail of pila from the last on the first rank.

btw: welcome to RAT Josh.

[Robert]

The depth of the formation itself not restricted by the pilum. The main fighting tactic is shove with the shield and stab, the press off the formation forcing the enemy back. The pilum is mainly used in the first contact, then as a defensive weapon on a wall and perhaps during a rout, sending a missile after the fleeing enemy.

A advancing mob closes the distance pretty quick, so there is not really much time for more the two volleys of pila, given their limited range. I would not really think once the fighting at the shieldwall had started, back rankers would lob their pila over the heads of their comrades. However, it can not be ruled out, as that would really spoil the days of the deeper rankers of the enemy. In that case, a formation depth over five deep would be courting with disaster and only the back rank could throw, as to throw a pilum with someone standing beside you is a definate no-no.

[M. Demetrius]

There is additionally a theory that every other rank could take a step to one side, meaning that you would not be standing directly behind the man in front of you. That way, even in close order, you'd be relatively safe from his buttspike (and from spoiling his throw, of course. :roll: )

[Robert]

That may be so, but the whole shield wall idea is to have the shields locked side by side. Even stepping to the side would still cause you to bang into the shields behind you, as no real space is opened, nor should it be. The stepping forward to clear throwing space eliminates a lot of otherwise cumbersome manouveres in the face of the enemy. This is really something a fair body of men (say twelve, three ranks deep, four wide) should try out. All you need extra is an equal couple of volunteers to time the bridging of the distance to close into contact. Lay out lines for a direct approuch, simulating a packed bunch of assailants. These will recieve the pila volley(s) as they close. I think the first volley could be delivered at 30 yards, the next at 10 to 15 yards. Takes a good bit of training, that, on the Roman part. Well rehearsed mahem :twisted:

[Neuraleanus]

I've found that how you grip the pilum makes a big difference. I've been taught to hold the pilum with my index finder pointing backwards. Rotation of the hand in the arc of the throw then results with the index finger pointing to where you want the pilum to go. This seems to produce consistent throws with the tip flying straight.

[M. Demetrius]

but the whole shield wall idea is to have the shields locked side by side

Of course you know not everyone thinks that was the typical Roman formation. There is a quote from Caesar in both Gallic Wars, and Civil War, in which he goes to the men and makes them spread out so they have room to fight. Generally, though, the Germanic spearmen locked their shields together more or less as if they were in phalanx like Greeks.

In another thread on this topic, I'd found a link to someone who had worked out just what you were talking about, though, down to distances for different ranks, how close the enemy would be at a given time, and so on. In the end, though, we don't really know. We could both be right.

[Robert]

Yep, totaly agree. Just so much theory and speculation. Not only could we both be right, we probably are, as both could have happened and so most likely did. I tried the searchfunction but couldn't find it. Any lead to that link? Sounds interesting!

[M. Demetrius]

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I found that, which has some info, but not the article I was looking for. I'll see if I can find it. But we're getting off topic, sorta.

[PhilusEstilius]

The Pilum throw.
I have always found this an interesting topic however we have have to consider as to when exactly the pilum was thrown, It has been my opinion that the soldier who instigated the throw was the Primus Pilus as his name implies { first spear }
With the soldiers drawn up in battle order they would have been two meters apart and the rank behind would have been like wise but offset by a meter so that two ranks can throw at the same time. The troops would not face the enemy but would look to their right and watch the PP for he would decide when to throw, this way all of the two ranks would throw at the same time creating the shock tactic of massive Pilum Volley into the on coming enemy.
Then the rear rank steps forward to lock their shields with the front rank making the shield wall and then let the carnage begin.

[Robert]

OK back on topic: All info seems to point to a static throw from a drawn up formation. Gripping of the pilum is a matter of personal choice, but I have often wondered about the blockshape perhaps having something to do with achieving better leverage on the throw.

[PhilusEstilius]

I would agree that there is better leverage for the throw however the block has more to do with an engineering aspect in the construction of our pilum, ie the block carries the iron shaft plate and holding rivets and I tend to think that the holding point would indeed be right behind this block.
If I can go off topic to say I have made many in the past and have always balanced them at this particular point, infact every one that I have made were all done as a one piece of wood structure where I used a 2 inch square piece of wood with the four corners cut back then rounded.
Indeed I would think that our Roman craftsman would also have considered this kind of construction and balance, for let's face it this weapon was for the basic soldier and would have been standard apart from it being a heavy or light type but generaly standard.