Vexillum pole length

[Marcus Mummius]

Salvete,

I'm making a new vexillum and I'm not sure what length I should make the main wooden pole. Any suggestions? The pole of our old vexillum is quite long (230cm). Most reconstructions of a vexillum I see around have a considerably shorter pole.

What length would you suggest, and why (ease of use? authenticity? what's the evidence in roman art?)?

Vale,

[Neuraleanus]

One source of evidence for the length of the vexillum pole comes from the Dura Europos fresco:
[url:3syfrkfl]http://www.le.ac.uk/archaeology/stj/dura.htm[/url]
It looks to be fairly high above the man's head.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hmmmm, the signifer is either very short in cmparison to the other figures in the fresco, or is supposed to be standing in the background, but the pole appears to reach the ground at the same level as the taller figures.
I wonder how accurate it can be as a basis for reconstructing the pole length?

thats just my cynical viewpoint tho' :|

[Doc]

Byron,

It looks to me as if the person holding the Vexillum is acutally standing behind the taller figures in the foreground. Think of it in terms of perspective.

I do agree though that the Vexillum is quite taller than the person handling it. The artist may have made the Vexillum tall to show its importance.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Byron,

It looks to me as if the person holding the Vexillum is acutally standing behind the taller figures in the foreground. Think of it in terms of perspective.

I do agree though that the Vexillum is quite taller than the person handling it. The artist may have made the Vexillum tall to show its importance.

That is why I doubt it can be used to show an authentic length for the vexellum pole!

[M. Demetrius]

Julius Caesar in Gallic Wars indicates on a couple of situations at least, that the signum/vexillium was used as a signal to troops behind (marching signals, iirc, advance or change direction). For that to be effective, it would have to be taller than the people between a soldier and the "flag". That could be accomplished easily by having a method to raise and hold the signum above the heads of the troops, having a longer shaft, or both.

I suspect that most of us probably make ours too short, partly for transportation issues, and partly because longer shafts are not readily available on the open market. I have put together a couple of them, and used a longer-than-normal butt spike to add some height, and build them on a 6' shaft. Probably, though, an 8' would be better, if I could find one.

From what sculpture/other art I've seen, there is no support strap for the flag like modern flag carriers use, though that would certainly take some of the weight off the arms.

[Marcus Mummius]

We use the flag to signal some things to the soldiers. I started doing this after marching as a vexilarius with the Ermine Streetguard in Xanten. Basicly it's just raising the flag and lowering it to the original height abruptly when starting to march or stopping during marching. Very easy to do and very effective, especially when there is much noise and vocal commands can not be heard by a lot of soldiers.

So I'll make the new vexillum about the length of our old one. I'm used to that length, so that's no problem. The only downside is when lightning begins striking again

@Demetrius: actually there is a depiction of a roman standard bearer somewhere who has a support strap. I'll have to look for the image. I made one some time ago out of leather and it is nice to use. You can easily hold the standard in one hand this way and have one hand free to use a shield or sword.

Vale,

[Magnus]

I think many of us use the 6' pole because that is what is most readily available. Usually only specialty hardware/lumber stores carry longer shafts.

Remember, longer isn't always better...too long and it becomes unwieldly. A 6' pole can be raised fairly high above the head with ease.

[Marcus Mummius]

Here you can see our old vexillum, the pole is 230cm in length, and the vexillum of the ESG (carried by our cornicen in Xanten) that has a pole of about 180cm I believe. Sorry for the blurry image.



As there is no real evidence for one of the two lengths (I've seen vexilla of different lenghts depicted in Roman art) I think I will go for a length more or less the same as our old one. That is if I can find a good pole

Valete,

[M. Demetrius]

You could add at least six inches or so by using a longer cone butt spike, without having longer wood. That should also work for a counter balance, as well as making it easier to plant in the ground. Just a thought.

[Magnus]

I heard Cialis also works... :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I heard Cialis also works... :lol:

Whats that? :?

[M. Demetrius]

Yeah, but if you use the Cialis, you might have trouble keeping the vex in any position except upright for a day or two. :roll: :wink:

[Doc]

Byron,

If I am reading the post correctly, then the Cialis they are referring to is a drug for erectile dysfunction

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Ahhh, ok! See, I'm blissfully anfamiliar with that sort of problem....... :wink: :lol: