Roman cloaks - a question!

[Virilis]

Well, well, well, stupid question number 328 :wink: ...

I just bought from an army shop two old wool blankets (see the pics attached). What do you think, is it a "blasphemy" to use those as a cloak in winter or are they of any use only in pieces, as gaiters, padding for greaves etc.?

[Cheyenne]

The 'bias' weave is correct - the almost 'Clavii' like embellishment looks ok - I suggest adding a fringed hem, you should get away with it as a late roman file leaders cloak..

Oh yes, and loose the zigzag overlocking machine stitch

Claire

[Virilis]

Thanks Claire !

Better than I anticipated, then! I already have a lighter wool cloak and I wondered if I could make a warm hooded paenula for winter out of this material...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Is there enough to make the full semi-circular paenula? Nice find though.....

[Cheyenne]

As far as I can tell, there isn't much evidence for the Paenula having clavii woven into the fabric - they are plain. If I was using such a piece of material, I would go for a sagum style cloak and make use of the decoration. Its hard to come by material with the strips already woven into the fabric (as authentic as it should be) and I wouldn't loose the opportunity to demonstrate such weave to the public.

For extra authenticity - I would try putting it through a single wash of madder dye - it would give the material a slight violet/orange (with the grey background) tint without loosing the clavii. I did a similar thing with a pair of WW1 putties and they are really authentic looking leg wraps now.

I have just finished up a completely hand stitched Chlamys with Tablions in cream and madder and it took 4 metres for the full garment. In respect of this - a Paenula needs about 3 metres for the full thing - so buy some wool separately for one of those...

I hope this helps

Claire

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Say Claire, do you do cloaks as a sideline?
I was wanting sagum, and have some decent material for making one, but I understand some had various embelishments on them? As in Virilis woven in stripes, and also with tablet weave borders and fringe?

But my sewing skills are pretty much limited to leather, of a rough and ready quality.....

[Virilis]

Thanks for the info!

You`re probably right Byron, it seems that there is not enough material for a full-sized paenula. I will make a sagum out of them like Claire kindly suggested. Anyway the wool is quite thick and i thought it wasn`t very expensive, two blankets with 16 €...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Sounds like a bargain virilis!
Getting woven material with clavii costs an arm and a leg usually!! Good score!

[Cheyenne]

Hi Byron..

I do any type of custom Roman clothing - I'll have my new website up and running soon. I can certainly make a Sagum for you from the material you have. I don't do tablet weaving but can source some for you and then hand stitch it to the edges. Fringing the material if it is wool with a visible weave is no problem at all..

let me know what you want

C

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks, I will sort out my materials and get back to you. i am off on holiday when I get back ashore, but will have a better idea exactly by then!

Can you do pturgues out of herringbone weave too?

[Cheyenne]

By Pteruges in this instance, do you mean the fringing for the cloak rather than on a subarmouralis? - If so, then herringbone fabric shouldn't be a problem as any irregularity would be covered by the tablet weaving

No rush - I still have a bunch of orders from other RATers I am getting on with..

Let me know when your ready

c

[Graham Sumner]

As far as I can tell, there isn't much evidence for the Paenula having clavii woven into the fabric - they are plain.

Ah Claire, that is because you did not buy Roman Military Dress when you had the chance at Vindolanda!

The cloaks in BGU VII 1564 are the same size as blankets ordered for the army but would appear to be larger than the example in the photo. It is my experience that the cloaks worn by re-enactors tend to be on the small side.

Graham.

[Virilis]

As far as I can tell, there isn't much evidence for the Paenula having clavii woven into the fabric - they are plain.

Ah Claire, that is because you did not buy Roman Military Dress when you had the chance at Vindolanda!

The cloaks in BGU VII 1564 are the same size as blankets ordered for the army but would appear to be larger than the example in the photo. It is my experience that the cloaks worn by re-enactors tend to be on the small side.

Graham.

Graham, just read your "Roman Military Dress " before going to sleep last night, great book ! The blankets in the photo are somewhere 210cm x 160 cm in size and quite thick...

[Graham Sumner]

Hi

Graham, just read your "Roman Military Dress " before going to sleep last night

I hope it did not give you nightmares!

Glad you liked it. Width wise your material is quite close but length wise it would be a bit short. As a quick guide you should be able to drape half of your cloak over your left shoulder so it almost reaches the ground, bring the remainder behind your body and round under your right arm, to tuck under your left arm or throw over your left shoulder. If you can do this it is about long enough.

Graham.

[Virilis]

Hi

Graham, just read your "Roman Military Dress " before going to sleep last night

I hope it did not give you nightmares!

Glad you liked it. Width wise your material is quite close but length wise it would be a bit short. As a quick guide you should be able to drape half of your cloak over your left shoulder so it almost reaches the ground, bring the remainder behind your body and round under your right arm, to tuck under your left arm or throw over your left shoulder. If you can do this it is about long enough.

Graham.

No, I haven`t had any nightmares so far, Graham :wink: ! I will try this method of wearing you suggested, thank you. Btw, in your new book you had a colour reconstruction of a late roman soldier wearing a brass / metal Intercisa style helmet witha NOSE-GUARD hock: ! May I ask where you got that idea in the first place?