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Pteruges with Segmentata in Dacian war?
#1
Salvete!

Working on my soft kit and looking to the next component while my fingers rest from sewing. I want to know if there is historic evidence of heavy leather pteruges with lorica segmentata. I looked at the Trajan column source and also at the other one built by soldier after the Dacian war. Witch I do not remember the name. On that second column the legionarii have what look like scale armour, manica and small greaves (ocrae). I wonder if there is other monument around that time that can suport the pteruges use with segmentata.

I find it hard to believe that soldier would cover almost all their body and leaving open their upper legs. Can somebody point me in the right direction please?

Valete!
M. Petronius Scaevola

a.k.a. : Christian P.
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#2
Adamklissi is by far your best historical reference, since it was built by the soldiers themselves, not commissioned by an artist in Rome like the Column.

Avoid heavy leather for the pteryges...at least the entire set. Use linen or other historical fabric for the long rectangular shaped pteryges. For the smaller, tongue shaped ones, leather is fine for this. All of the sculptural evidence suggests textile for the long pteryges (not leather like hollywood and some groups like to use), but then a smooth material for the tongue shaped ones. So either leather, or possibly metal.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#3
Thank you this is the monument I was searching for. I stumble upon it wile searching Trajan column.
M. Petronius Scaevola

a.k.a. : Christian P.
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#4
Here's a freize dated 50 years after Trajan that shows a seg with waist pteruges.

A few people like Marcus Mummius and myself have constructed pteruges from composite materials - using leather as a base, then layering it with strips of felt and linen. Building them this way gives them the appearance of fabric coupled with the durability of leather. Something to think about maybe.

The majority of the surviving artistic (non-sculptural) evidence depict pteruges as white in color suggesting a fabric construction at least in part if not in whole. But there are a number of frescoes that depict them in brown suggesting leather manufacture. I can post all the pictures of both colors if you're interested.

Good luck with your project.

~Theo
Jaime
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#5
I saw a couple of officer statue, Trajan's come to mind, were the pteruges worn looked a lot like cloth. The construction you suggest seems likely if you look carefully at the artist representation. I was wondering if it was the same for common soldier.

[url:ucm8cpck]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/TrajanXanten.jpg[/url]

Why leave open the tight/upper leg when the rest of the body is covered by supplemental armour(greave, manica)? Not useful so why bother or just a fashion item?

I am very interested in the picture you talked about. I'm pretty new at serious research about the roman army so help is always welcomed.
M. Petronius Scaevola

a.k.a. : Christian P.
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#6
Here are links of all the frecoes and mosaics showing pteruges, as far as I know.

White pteruges :

Romulus fresco
Aeneas fresco
Etruscan fresco
Santa Maggiore fresco (there are other panels with showing white pteruges)
Ambrosian Manuscript showing the Trojan war (dated to the early 6th century AD)
Argos Mosaic, 5th-6th century AD

Brown pteruges :
Late 4th century AD manuscript
Same manuscript
Sixth century AD Ravenna mosaic of Christ (with strange looking pteruges)

Note that only the 4th century manuscripts show regular soldiers wearing brown pteruges while the others show officers wearing white. It may be, as you say, that officers wore different styles of pteruges than the regular soldiers.

~Theo
Jaime
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#7
hum! :?

Very interesting! I wonder if the lather evidence is a description of what was or an artistic interpretation with the things the artist is seeing every day. In short is this really Dacian war or an image of 4c kit.
For now, There is a lot of the officer type pteruges but not much from soldier. At least with segmentata. I think I will refrain to use them. Thank you very much for the links, very informative.
M. Petronius Scaevola

a.k.a. : Christian P.
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