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Judgment of Paris
#1
[Image: troy_judgment_paris_munchen_1.JPG]
That's of course the Judgment of Paris, and the Etruscan amphora is in the Antikensammlung, Munich. From right to left: a well-dressed Aphrodite, an Athena with a spear, a veiled Hera, Hermes, and ... who's the old guy to the left? He has a herald's staff, but it's a bit odd to see a herald announcing Hermes, who is himself a herald. What aspect of the story have I missed?

(And I think that Hermes says to the women "Won't you now please stop quarreling?!")
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
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#2
Perhaps the leftmost figure is Hermes, while the next one to the right is instead Iris, the female messenger of the gods. The white-haired figure has a beard, while the next one carrying the herald's staff does not. Also the non-bearded figure has longer hair, similar to what we can see on the goddesses, so perhaps it is a female.

Hubert Damisch in his book The Judgment of Paris mentions the possibility of both Hermes and Iris being portrayed in an image now in the Louvre (see page 116).

This is also mentioned on this web page, but no sources are listed.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#3
Quote:Perhaps the leftmost figure is Hermes, while the next one to the right is instead Iris
I'm baffled. Of course, yes, you are right. Why haven't I thought of it myself? Here's a nice bearded Hermes by the Tithonus Painter; I should have realized that Hermes is not always clean shaven.
[Image: K11.11Hermes.jpg]
Jona Lendering
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#4
I've seen some theories that Hermes was depicted with a beard in archaic times but later came to be shown as a beardless youth. I'm not sure of the reasons behind this change, though.
David J. Cord
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#5
What a wonderful picture, Jona. I have nothing to add to your erudite discussion, except to note that the "Hermes" figure does look rather feminine, and appears to be taking his/her cue from Hera, which would square nicely with David's identification of him/her as Iris.

Is the lefthand figure (the true Hermes, by David's reckoning) plucking the golden apple from the tree? (It's difficult to see from this angle.)
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#6
Quote:Is the lefthand figure (the true Hermes, by David's reckoning) plucking the golden apple from the tree?
A tempting idea, and I checked the larger file, but no. Besides, that apple had already been thrown prior to the arrival of the goddesses; on the other hand, it would not have been the only ancient work of art that is "illogical", showing things simultaneously that did not happen at the same time. So it might have been possible.
Jona Lendering
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#7
And here is another plausible argument that it is Iris. The story of the Judgment of Paris is told in the Cypria, a poem from the Epic Cycle. It is lost, but the exerpt in Proclus' Chrestomathy makes it clear that the poet recognized two messengers for the gods, Hermes and Iris.

Off topic: Proclus wrote his Chrestomathy for a young Marcus Aurelius! Isn't it amazing to have a text that was written especially for the young prince?!
Jona Lendering
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#8
Asklepios also bore the caduceus. He might have been handy to have around should a fight have broken out among the goddesses.
Pecunia non olet
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#9
Quote:Asklepios also bore the caduceus. He might have been handy to have around should a fight have broken out among the goddesses.
:lol: And we could leave it to the ancients to create an entertaining piece of misogyny. Pity that Asclepius was not yet recognized as a god in Homer's poems!
Jona Lendering
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#10
A son of Asklepios treats Agamemnon's arrow wound. Was Asklepios a demigod at that time?
Pecunia non olet
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#11
Quote:A son of Asklepios treats Agamemnon's arrow wound. Was Asklepios a demigod at that time?
A mortal, I believe. He became a deity later. One of the few deities I actually like.
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
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