Interested in Roman Riding?

[jvrjenivs]

And some sneek previews from the docu we recorded last weekend. I think our rides did a very good job!

[John Conyard]

Hi Moi,

Bits and bridles is where we often deviate from authenticity, sadly.

Making authentic bridles based on iconography is easy enough, even fun. I try and minimise the amount of buckles used and take a "western" approach of tied thongs which can easily be replaced.

Some modern snaffles can be very much like Roman bits, and the harder I look the more variety of existing Roman bits I find. Your research sounds really interesting.

Our new horses are the best I have riden by a country mile but they come with their own bridles and I have not yet started to mess around with them.

An American used the phrase "hot horse" to me to describe a horse that was hard to control. I rather like it. Some options the Roman chose to control horses are just not open to us, and so reconstructors resort to modern aids. In reality the result is the same so the use of modern aids should not interfere with objective analysis of the capacity of the cavalry. But it grates.

[BlackLamb]

@John : There is no such thing as a horse which is hard to control. It is always a lack of good horsemanship.

Our new horses are the best I have riden by a country mile but they come with their own bridles and I have not yet started to mess around with them.

So why not keep practising at home ( with those more friendly bits or riding by neck pressure) instead of taking them on shows already.

Why the rush?
You as a human can decide when you're at your limit or stop when you're in pain or discomfort .
The horse has no choise...so please take a closer look at your equipment and riding abbillities before you use an animal for your own benefits.

[John Conyard]

Well that was blunt and insulting.

Oh Olga, believe me some horses are harder to control than others. It is a fact and no reflection on anybodies riding ability.

And of course our horses neck rein, are never in any discomfort, and are not used for my "own benefits" or profit. I will leave that up to you.

[Ammianus]

hock: hock: hock:

I think it is important that we remember why we are on RAT - to encourage each other, not to slight or put people down.

Photos are only half the story, and you have to respect the decisions made by people and the horses they ride. We have to be able to ride safely and if that means modern aids are applied then they should be used. No point in dead or injured riders, they won't help develop our knowledge! :roll:

I'm sure everyone on this thread who rides does it with the horse as the number one priority. We all care for the horses we ride as it is a joint relationship of trust and work for both the rider and the horse.

So why not keep practising at home ( with those more friendly bits or riding by neck pressure) instead of taking them on shows already.

Why the rush?
You as a human can decide when you're at your limit or stop when you're in pain or discomfort .
The horse has no choise...so please take a closer look at your equipment and riding abbillities before you use an animal for your own benefits.

Olga, we practice with, and train the horses all through the year and work especially hard with them over the winter so that everyone, especially the horses, feel confident. There is no rush and we only take the horse when it is ready. Sometimes modern bits and bridles are needed, but we are always working with the horse to progress things. So although some photos show modern tack in time hopefully those bits will change. We just need to make sure it is correct first.

I back John up in saying that we certainly do not ride the horses for money, or our own personal agenda or benefit. We do it because of an interest in recreating the past to the highest standard and try to learn as much as possible from what we do.

And I am afraid that there are some ill-trained or hard to control horses in the world that do need lots of work, because they have not been treated right in the past. It is not down to the ability of the rider. Sometimes you do come across horses like that.

Saying that, our horse supplier is fantastic, the horses are 100% his main priority and they are beautifully curried, cared for and trained. We work together to make sure tack fits correctly and that is why there is still some modern tack, because we are yet to work on it. Forgive us a bit of time, not everything is done at once! Equipment improves eternally and constantly, as I am sure you are aware.

You are also lucky to own your own animals and give them such a great life from beginning to end. They do look very nice. mile:

[Ammianus]

@jurjen: The filming photos look great! You look very scared at being run down!

[Robert]

Well, these are really great horses and Olga is very much in control, but hearing those two pounding up behind you does put the fear into you, film or no film. The horses may be Roman size, but that still is a lot of horse! Very sturdy creatures indeed. They were riding at a good pace, the car with the camera had to cut things fine because there was limited room/lenght on that wooded path, Jurjen was squashed between the car pulling away and the horses closing at his heels, so all in all, no wonder Jurjen looked the part!

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Hello

In my opinion, best to use a modern bit similar to an original, than use a replica of a roman bit. There are often very severe, as work published by Hyland shows.

[Ammianus]

Yes a lot of simple modern snaffles are great!

[garrelt]

Olga. Thanks for putting me on Jumper again.
Felt good.

I still have all of my Bridles and the Pillow saddle laying around.
All can be used for Gallo-Germanic local Cavalry.
The horn saddle did not fit me and felt uncomfortable, I personally prefer my own saddle or none at all.
Will stay in contact

[Vindex]

Hello

In my opinion, best to use a modern bit similar to an original, than use a replica of a roman bit. There are often very severe, as work published by Hyland shows.

Sorry for my lack of participation. I have been in Wales researching the Roman gold mines and enjoying Caerleon!

Sadly I am going to be one of the very few people who disagree with Ann Hyland on many issues and will probably be in a minority of one until my research is honed and as water tight as I can get it before exposing it to RAT. But some points to consider:

1. Many of the Roman bits found are the precursors of modern bits - the snaffle as shown by Ammianus in the above post and the fulmer (has straight bars on the outside of the horse's mouth and prevents the bit being pulled through the mouth). As horsemen, the Romans understood the advantage of a jointed bit in a horse's mouth but I am yet to find a shaped snaffle (and I imagine I probably never will)

2. The alleged "severe bits" Hyland warns of are only really severe if you do not have an independent seat and rely too much on your hands to control your horse. This is where I have my reservations about saddle design.

3. To my knowledge, all of Hyland's experimentation (including with the Newstead curb which looks pretty horrific)was done on horses who have benefitted from modern dentistry. My research so far shows that the skulls of Roman horses (found in context) show NO indication of rasping and other tooth care we take for granted today. Any horseman will tell you how bad a horse's teeth can get without constant care, and the Romans probably had this to contend with hence the move to "severe" bits. There was a lot going on in horse's mouths and perhaps this is why we see the development of the bit so called the hackamore (which, in my very humble opinion) is a misnomer and misleading.

So, just a few things for you to consider.

I am in the forge next week and hope to start producing some trial bits of my own. Current copies of Roman bits are in stainless steel and I think we need to go back to the iron...

Edited to apologise for all my spelling errors!!

[John Conyard]

I think perhaps that this is an appropriate movement to consider why we ride as Romans.

My interest lies in the artefacts, and how they were used. As re-enactors if you have any claim to authenticity you need to test your equipment, proving it is fit for purpose and not just fancy dress. It is great to see excellent equipment on RAT, it fires the imagination and gets people interested. But often the real interest lies in how the equipment performs, its size, weight etc. All objective data gained through reconstruction is priceless. Horses need to be the correct size to reproduce the correct speed of manoeuvre. Equipment gets a rigorous test on the back of a horse; it wears out quickly, needs constant attention and needs to be really fit for purpose. I think it is generally accepted that Roman saddles were based around a wooden frame, but the flexibility and construction of that frame needs to be worked on. The Carlisle saddle covers now seem fairly common in re-enactment, and I am trying to lead a move to easily detachable saddle covers stretched over a wooden frame, mirroring later military saddles. Riders and horses need to be safe.

The advantages of reconstruction are obvious, yet there is a tension between reconstruction and public re-enactment. Public events need to draw the crowds, and Roman cavalry can do that. All too often a body dressed in poor equipment sitting on a dobbin will be used to attract public attention. And people want to try and emulate successful cavalry groups, and why shouldn’t they. They need to be encouraged to get better. Too often the horse is just for posing on, a prop to attract people’s interest. It is poor re-enactment and is certainly not reconstruction.

I suspect we learn most in a sand school or during training sessions rather than in public shows. Yet public shows can teach you things. Getting your saddle, tack and equipment to work on a horse is a major effort. Getting kit to work on seven horses is a much greater undertaking, and you all need to get kitted up quickly several times a day. Modern riders are used to a saddle fitted to an individual horse, but military saddles need to fit various shapes of horse, safely and comfortably. Adjustments need to be made and blankets furs etc are used to make the saddles fit. And of course public shows can be used to educate the public as well as entertain them. You need a great commentator, show and script.

And riding is fun for the rider and the horse. It keeps you physically and mentally fit. I would like as many people as possible to try it, and for many sitting in a Roman saddle is an ambition. I do not want to encourage novices and absolute beginners to start riding only to fall off horses left, right and centre. But with the right assistance novices and beginners can enjoy riding safely and responsibly. Riding in shows is not something everybody enjoys and some people will need a great deal of practice before they ride in public. Show riding makes different demands and needs a complete focus, but it can be very exciting. Working with a horse to learn some of the skills of the Roman cavalry can be very frustrating but ultimately very rewarding. Building up a bond with the horse is priceless.

[John Conyard]

Moi - I have one iron bit, just one, too large and more of a handling piece. Your work sounds excellent.

[BlackLamb]

@garrelt , I'm happy that i (jumper) made you happy
We'll see what the future brings

[jvrjenivs]

And of course nothing beets a Dromedarius impression



Still have to do a more serious photoshoot with my new Dura horse armour on a proper horse, though.