Tunica : wool type needed?

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

Salve!

I'm new to roman re-enacting but not to re-enacting. I did Viking a long time ago. This time I want it to be precise and period correct, not just for fun. See it has an affordable classic education. I need advice for the type of wool needed to build a tunica. I am wondering if the modern wool used to do business summer suit is correct or if there is something else better. I will compromise on the fabric: I will not spun wool but the stitches will be by hand. Anny advice on confectioning this garment from more experienced members would be nice.

For the color I still do not know. Much debate about this. Some say red, other white, who knows. Maybe I should do one of each plus one in the color I like. I red I nice article, Rainbow warrior from Len Morgan, about this. I intent to build a common older/veteran soldiers kit around a Mainz gladius. I am still researching for info on the time span of this weapon so my kit is not fixed yet. I prefer the widder balteus ( Pompei soldier)but I want to be has accurate has possible so caligae and tunica only now until I can find some source.

This seems to be a wonderful place and I learned a lot just browsing the prior forum post.

Valete!

[M. Demetrius]

You're wise to steer clear of the color debate, and your compromise is a good one. Some of us make a "natural color" linen and a red or reddish brown tunic. That covers all contingencies that usually arrive in your path. But the important thing to consider is that the group you may join may have a preference, in which case you should contact them for info. There are at least two legions in Canada as far as I know, and they should be able to guide you.

Many people are now saying that the modern weight suiting wool is the correct thickness, not blanket weight material. With the thinner cloth, it's possible to drape the curving wrinkles that are frequently seen in sculpture. A couple of large fibulae on the sides will add to that effect. At any rate, the lighter wool is more readily available from the fabric stores.

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

Thank you for the prompt response! I will search for a “offwhitish” wool and the red you suggested. I don’t understand perfectly about the Fibulae. I will look at some statuary. I have Roman military clothing on order, hope it will help.

I will follow the Legio XX handbook pattern and will probably post the result.

Can you steer me to the Canadian groups? Names or web site would be nice.

Vale.

[M. Demetrius]

Well, picture this, if you will. You put on the tunic. You put on a belt, and pull the upper part up so the torso part of the tunic blouses out. Then, using a large fibula (like a big safety pin) you hook onto the belt at the top, and the hem of the tunic at the side. That pulls the side up so it rides right by the belt, and lets the front hang down where it usually would. Do the same thing with the other side, and you'll see large, circular "folds" that start at the sides, then go downward to the center and back up. Of course, for this to work, your tunic has to be made so it is large/long enough that there is sufficient cloth. Generally speaking, if it hangs to about the top of the calf when not belted, and reaches from around elbow to elbow or so, it is the right size.

I think Legion XXIV is in Canada. I think an edition of Leg II is, also. I'll see what I can come up with, and get folks in touch with you, if I'm successful. How'z that? I sent a query to the School of the Soldier event yahoogroup.

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Christian.

I have Roman military clothing on order, hope it will help.

Try my latest book 'Roman Military Dress'. It has much more detailed information on all aspects of clothing and all the latest evidence for clothing colour.

I hope it helps.

Graham.

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

To David:
Haa! Used to see fibulae on shoulders. I was thinking tha the tunica bottom sides were only "squeezed" in the belt. That probably explain the shape of some Roman fibulae: Like a big safety pin instead of the omega shape . I will look those Legion numbers. Thanks

To Graham:
Will find a copy. I need to build collection of reference book.

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

Still looking for the right wool fabric. Everything I find seems to be white or too beige. Somebody know the result of the Roman bleaching process? Full snowy white?

Mr. Sumners' s book will arrive only in September. Hope it will clarify a lot of the questions I have.

[Magnus]

Bonjour Christian, comment ca va?

We're a little far from Quebec...the closest unit used to be XII Fulminata in Ottawa, but they're no longer active. Send me an email through this forum and I'll see what I can do for you.

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

Hello Magnus!

PM Sent!

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

Ok. I found a suitable wool. It is off-white. Unfortunately it is too wide and I cannot use the weaver border finish. So I will have to do hedge finishing. The business suit weight is perfect. I'm able to do the folds like the statuary. Will try to post picture when finished.

Finally received M. Graham Sumner book. Very good read, I strongly recommend it.

[M. Demetrius]

STOP! Before you cut it, see if the selvage will work for the hem and/or the upper shoulder seam, neck opening. It might be the right dimension vertically, depending on width of cloth and your particular height. It's ok to run the weave in either direction.

Now, GO! Get to work: we want to see pictures! :lol:

[Marcus Petronius Scaevola]

The problem is that the cloth is 60" wide so it is too long either way and the selvage is marked with the manufacturer name and type of wool. Not really accurate I think. So I have no choice, I need to cut it. If you have a way around this feel free to tell: I'm all ears!!

I also have problem finding the right tread to sew it. Any idea? I want to avoid the modern type I found in the cloth shop. I also have linen tread but it is too thick, I use it for leather. Haven't found a thinner one.

[M. Demetrius]

Nope. Can't beat the printed selvage. You might consider trying to unravel thread from the warp (often stronger than the weft). Might not be as "thin" as you'd like, but it's certain to be a color match, eh? Most of the time, the yarn in a piece of cloth is not a strong as thread made for sewing, so you'll have to be careful not to break it as you sew, but it works.

[Tarbicus]

Hello Christian.

I have Roman military clothing on order, hope it will help.

Try my latest book 'Roman Military Dress'. It has much more detailed information on all aspects of clothing and all the latest evidence for clothing colour.

I hope it helps.

Graham.

I second that (whoops, just noticed I'm actually thirding it). An excellent book with a wealth of information, especially on this very subject.

[Crispvs]

I don't know if you have made the tunic yet or not, but 60" is NOT too wide, as I understand it (Graham will correct me if I am wrong I am sure). 60" would be roughly wrist to wrist (unless you have very short arms). This certainly seems wide but as soon as you take a look at a few actual Roman depictions of unbelted tunics you start to realise that the Romans themselves could be extremely comfortable with very large clothes. The absolute minimum width for a tunic should be seen as elbow to elbow (with no sleeves and no need for sleeves) and wrist to wrist (I am assuming a cruciform stance when I say this) is still within the known range. Rather than decide they were wrong and invent our own sizes we really should try to do things as they did, as far as we reasonably can. If that means getting used to wearing something the size of a tent then so be it. Just wait until you try wearing a full sized toga.

http://www.romanarmy.net/images/Pages/p ... y1_jpg.htm
I am the figure in the centre. Unfortunately on that occasion only one person was there to help me get dressed, as will be obvious from the photo. Normally I take great care in putting on a toga and have at least two people to assist. The tunic I am wearing under the toga in the picture is a bit over 50" wide and is certainly not large as tunics go.

Crispvs