Late Roman Mail

[Conal]

I have seen a few illustrations showing a mail vest with a cape shoulder protection similsr to those worn by cavalry of earlier centuries.

Can anyone point me to a contemprary ilustration please?

[Medicus matt]

I have seen a few illustrations showing a mail vest with a cape shoulder protection similsr to those worn by cavalry of earlier centuries.

Only place I recall seeing something like that was a modern illustration in the Osprey book on late roman infantry.

[Conal]

Same here but it seems to have gained some currency and I can't see why :?

[PhilusEstilius]

There is a relief of the God Mars from a votive pillar at Mavilly Cote d' Or 1st Century AD This is on page 169 of the H. R Robinson Armour of Imperial Rome, then above it there appears to be a cavalryman with what looks to be the same gear.

[Dan Howard]

There is a relief of the God Mars from a votive pillar at Mavilly Cote d' Or 1st Century AD This is on page 169 of the H. R Robinson Armour of Imperial Rome, then above it there appears to be a cavalryman with what looks to be the same gear.

These look like the typical hamata design but with flared shoulders. Would make an interesting reconstruction.

[Medicus matt]

I'd assumed that Conal wanted a late example, not an early imperial one.

[Conal]

The later the better .... post 300AD would be good.

There are a few examples of early stuff but I can find nothing for the later periods :|

[Gregg]

Conal,

I had a quick look through my sources and from what I can figure shoulder doubling (Greek, Celtic and the odd variation) was basically out of fashion by 300 AD. Though I might have missed something.

Gregg

[Robert Vermaat]

I would say even before that. However, there are a few busts of Late Roman emperors around, which has lead some groups to speculate about shoulder doublings ina LR context.

For instance, here is such a reconstruction from the Herculiani (F):

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Conal,

I had a quick look through my sources and from what I can figure shoulder doubling (Greek, Celtic and the odd variation) was basically out of fashion by 300 AD. Though I might have missed something.

Gregg

What evidence is there for it previous to 300ad? Apart from the very early pricipate? There seems to be little
evidence or support for the use of doublers after the mid 2nd century....but if there is any I would be quite interested.
It would help me with a certain project of mine anyways.....Apologies for butting in here.

[Gregg]

Conal was asking about 300 AD, but no, I don't know of any evidence after the early 2nd century for doubling, except for some late depictions of Emperors on busts, the enormous statue of Valentinian I, and the "Israelites Attack Hai" mosaic. Most or all of those may contain unrealistic classical elements and may not represent real armor, though the scale armor on the bust of Valentinian III looks pretty realistic and VERY cool.

Gregg

[Theodosius the Great]

Most or all of those may contain unrealistic classical elements and may not represent real armor, though the scale armor on the bust of Valentinian III looks pretty realistic and VERY cool.

Gregg

The head is that of Valentian III but the bust itself may be from a much earlier period. Modern
curators tend to stick any old head onto any old torso without much justification. Sadly, busts
aren't of much help with regards to dating.



~Theo

[PhilusEstilius]

It looks like things are starting to go a little off topic here, for was Conal not asking about a shoulder Cape and not doublings.

[Medicus matt]

It looks like things are starting to go a little off topic here, for was Conal not asking about a shoulder Cape and not doublings.

Yes, as shown on the cover of the old edition of Osprey's "Late Roman Infantryman" book.

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Like I said, this is the only place I've seen it in a late context.

[Conal]

That's one I have seen but I am sure that I have seen at least two other illustrations kreeping in ... probably in Osprey.

There is one where Roman Navy types are intercepting a Saxon raiding parrty in boats.

Another is in one of the fortification books, the Walls of Rome maybe??

I just thought that there would be at least one contemporary illustration to back up putting this in a published reconstruction.