Egypt Vexillum

[Doc]

Does anyone have a good picture of the original possible Vexellium found in Egypt (the one with Victory on a globe).

I would like to take a look at the original and see, for example, what color the lambdas are in the corners. They look white to me but I just want to make sure.

I also would like to look at the other colors of the original.

Thanks

[Peroni]

See this thread wool vexillum from Egypt...
It's the one in the Hermitage museum in Leningrad.

I have a copy of the Rostovtzeff report somewhere. It was dated to the early part of the second century CE.

Apparently there was another similar sized (47cm x 50cm) vexillum found in Egypt in the late 1980's by English archaeologists, made of a much coarser material. Fugère describes it being " much less elaborately decorated, with a simple cruciform motif based on a geometrical pattern or floral design"
(Michel Fugère - 'Weapons of the Romans' - Tempus publishing ltd. ISBN 0-7524-2506-4

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[Doc]

Peroni,

Thanks for the link. The Vexellium is made of linen. I believe I read about it in Sumner's new book. (I'll have to double check on that).

From the picture in the other post, I cannot tell. Are the Lambda's white or yellow?

Thanks again

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

See this thread wool vexillum from Egypt...
It's the one in the Hermitage museum in Leningrad.

Just FYI, apparently the vexillum was in the Hermitage only in 1909-1911. It has been purchased in Egypt by V.S. Golenischev, and with the rest of his vast collection was transferred to the Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts in Moscow. But the Museum opened only in 1912, and so the vexillum was temporarily hosted in the Hermitage until then.

[Doc]

Alexander,

That would explain why immediately after Peronis post, I sepnt more than one hour looking for it at the Hermitage.

Would you happen to know if the corner lambdas are yellow or white in the original.

Thanks

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

The gammas - not lambdas - are "brilliant gold." Here is a description from M. Rostovtzeff, "Vexillum and Victory," The Journal of Roman Studies 32 (1942): 92-106:

This piece of coarse linen cloth is almost square (height, 0.47 m. ;
width, 0.50 m.) and, except for a few holes, is well preserved. On the
left and right it is selvaged, while the lower edge is loose and shows remains
of a fringe. The upper edge is hemmed, and through the hem there
passes a piece of wood (reed) of exactly the same length as the width of the
cloth. It is evident that the piece of cloth hung down from the transverse
bar or reed, which originally was apparently fastened to a vertical pole.
In colour the cloth is scarlet. On the surface is painted in brilliant gold
four angle-fillers, so typical of the so-called Coptic stuffs, known as
gammadia, and in the centre the figure of a Victory, standing on a globe.
The goddess is represented in frontal view, with the head turned slightly
to the left and the eyes looking in the same direction. Her dress consists
of a chiton and a chlamys ; her feet are bare. She is holding in her bare
right arm a large laurel wreath with a medallion containing an inset stone
and long streamers hanging down. In her left hand is a palm branch.
The goddess was represented apparently as if crowning someone standing
on her left. The proportions of the figure are clumsy. It is hazardous
to assign a definite date to such a product of pictorial industry from stylistic
considerations. I would tentatively suggest the early third century A.D.

[Doc]

Thanks Alexander,

That is exactly the information I was looking for.

Much obliged

[PhilusEstilius]

Alexander.
I find that rather interesting where the Gammadia is mentioned for indeed in Medieval times the swastica was given the same name Gammadian. It is also known as the short cross swastica where the Gamma's are joined at a center point which to the Christian belief is Christ as the corner stone, and the four Gamma's representing the four Apostles.

[Peroni]

Thanks for the update Alex. I'll have to check the fabric of the second vexillum (in Feugere) I'm sure one is wool!

[Antonia Auriga]

Thanks for the quote! Any idea of what the other vexellium was made out of?

I am making a new one for Leg. VI VPF in Brittania... I am going to use wool, since it would be readily available, weatherproof and colorful. I am not sure of the size something between 18" x 22" or more likely 16" x 18". What do they mean by "brilliant gold?" Our symbol is a charging bull... I was going to embroider some gold thread onto the vex..... I was going to make the whole thing out of red wool, and hand applique (with an invisible stitch) a golden yellow "LEG VI VPF" on it with the charging bull then go back and do some hand work... any suggestions?

[Doc]

I had some coarse white linen lying around and I am going to dye it using RIT dye, which colors just about everything especially wool, linen, and cotton.

I also purchased some milk paints that I plan to use to paint the legion information unto the linen Vex. Brialliant yellow I think suggests not a dull yellow ochre color but rather a bright yellow similar to lemon yellow which if you look at lemom skins when they are clean, they are quite brite. You can achieve this by adding white to cadmium type yellows. Unfortunately, the milk paint company does not make cadmium yellow but there are yellow colors that are brite in their own right that can be made more lively by adding white.

I will have to experiment with milk colors myself since I am used to painting landscapes and seascapes in oils which, is why I can tell you how the cad. yellows behave. When I am finished with my Vex. I will post a picture.

I thought about sewing things on as you plan to but since the only extant example suggests paint, I decided to give it run. If all fails, I too will sew the emblems on.

I would like to point out however, that if you go the paint route, I would paint the animal in its natural colors. If one looks at Roman mosaics, frescoes, and shield like the Dura shield, you will notice that animals were painted to look "real" i.e details of their bodies like feathers and fur. They were not flat monochrome monograms with an indication of a muscle here and there and a hair here and there.

My two cents.........

[Peroni]

I thought about sewing things on as you plan to but since the only extant example suggests paint, I decided to give it run. If all fails, I too will sew the emblems on.

I have done both painting and appliqué methods but I much prefer painting to sewing!..much faster! :wink:


and sewn..

[Doc]

Well done Peroni,

I like your capricorn. However, I seem to remember, at least from 1st C AD coins that the tail was not curled that way. It was like a normal fish tail. (I am assuming this is for 1st C of course)

Question: Why the bar over the the 4 "ones". On the actual tombstone for LEG XIIII, I do not recall any such detail.

[Antonia Auriga]

I thought sewing on letters/symbols would be a nice regional change since it seems like many examples of Celtic arts are woven, rathern than painted. Besides, a more 'warm and fuzzy' look of wool would make us stand apart from our Leg VI Ferrata friends in Judea, where linen and textile painting were more prevalent.

At any rate, everything I've seen so far looks great. Good job! Wouldn't it be awesome if we could get all of our vexellii together with our signifers and march? If only... I can dream...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I believe the bar across the top of the numerals is a common feature of roman numeral notation, it is seen on other
inscriptions.