Clichés about disciplining

[Jona Lendering]

Several authors describe how a general arrives at a place where the war is not really proceeding as it should. He concludes that the soldiers have grown lazy, and disciplines them again. After that, they fight like lions and capture Numantia, defeat Spartacus, subdue the Frisians (Appian, Iberian War 85; Plutarch, Crassus 10.3; Tacitus, Annals 11.18). These examples I remember; is there someone who recalls another?

[D B Campbell]

Surely Corbulo in the East is the famous one, and the root of another myth, that the eastern legions were of poorer quality than the western ones.

[Alexandr K]

Marius in Africa, IIRC.

EDIT: I checked it and it wasn't Marius but Metellus who brought troops in Africa to discipline again (Sallust. B. Jug. 44-45).

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

Caesar did somewhere, in his Gallic Wars. Can't look it up here, I'm sorry.

[Jona Lendering]

Sallust. B. Jug. 44-45

Thanks!

[Justin of the New Yorkii]

This reminds me of one of my favorite stories about the Roman army, during the Battle of Pydna:

Livy, 44.40:
"The Pelignians were now fighting against the targeteers, who were ranged opposite opposite to them, and when, after long and laborious efforts, they were unable to break through that compact array, Salius, who was commanding the Pelignians, seized a standard and threw it among the enemy. On this a prodigious conflict was excited, whilst on one side the Pelignians strove with all their might to recover the standard, the Macedonians on the other side to retain it."

That is a classic motivational technique known as "lighting a fire under their ass." :wink:

Livy says the Pelignians surged forward but got cut to pieces by the Macedonian phalanx and routed. The Romans eventually won though, so I guess all's well that ends well.

[Epictetus]

Fronto says this regarding Lucius Verus in his Parthian war.

This great decay in military discipline Lucius took in hand as the case demanded, setting up his own energy in the service as a pattern…

Fronto, Ambr. 257+ (Preamble to History, p. 209 in Loeb)

[jho]

There is a whole book full of such anecdotes:

[url:myd786oj]http://books.google.de/books?id=OhI1okJ5l6MC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false[/url]

[Jona Lendering]

Fronto says this regarding Lucius Verus in his Parthian war.

This great decay in military discipline Lucius took in hand as the case demanded, setting up his own energy in the service as a pattern…

Fronto, Ambr. 257+ (Preamble to History, p. 209 in Loeb)

That's a good one.

There is a whole book full of such anecdotes:

[url:2bmu4x40]http://books.google.de/books?id=OhI1okJ5l6MC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_v2_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=&f=false[/url]

So off to the library I go!

[D B Campbell]

So off to the library I go!

Phang's book got a general thumbs-up from Bryn Mawr Classical Review. I haven't read it, but her chapter in the Blackwell Companion to the Roman Army was very good.

[Quintius Clavus]

Yes, Sara Phang's book, Roman Military Service, is excellent. I spent the money and bought it. She examines how the Roman Elite looked at discipline, and sometimes contrasts the ancients' views with how we moderns view it. One also gets a look at the tension between how the Roman elites and officers viewed it, verses how the ordinary soldiers in the ranks viewed it. :wink: It is a study of discipline as an ideology among the Romans - as much from their point of view as one can reasonably hope to get close to.