English vs Celtic/Gaulish Language

[Caballo]

A good exemple is when the Bretons started to learn french. We still use some french expression with a Breton syntax, and old people do it all the time...

Same South Wales, where "Wenglish" was defined - still speaking Welsh, but through the medium of English......

It was summed up in a great couple of books "Talk tidy"- http://www.talktidy.com/ . Probably helps if you've spent a fair bit of time in South Wales ........

[Conal]

A good exemple is when the Bretons started to learn french. We still use some french expression with a Breton syntax, and old people do it all the time...

Same South Wales, where "Wenglish" was defined - still speaking Welsh, but through the medium of English......

It was summed up in a great couple of books "Talk tidy"- http://www.talktidy.com/ . Probably helps if you've spent a fair bit of time in South Wales ........

Awww ... why did you have to show this ..I'll have to buy that now look you , isn't it ,etc etc :oops:

I have spent a bit of time in South Walesland, Newport to be exact and they have little quirks not heard elsewhere.

[Medicus matt]

I have spent a bit of time in South Walesland, Newport to be exact and they have little quirks not heard elsewhere.

With a decent bit of artillery mounted on the roof of my house I could hit Newport from across the Severn. :twisted:

[Conal]

You'll be wanting some grid refs the????

[recondicom]

LOL
The question is who learn what? Was it allowed?
There was the Roman Alphabet and a law limiting all possible learning…and naturally the first Carta Magna was drafted in Latin.
I could add the ever changing name… like Franks coming from Franco their leader. Are they still Alans/Arians?
I could extrapolate by the way of the Chinese’s descriptions of their neighbors; ethnicity and the origin of red hair and green eyes.

[Ron Andrea]

LOL
There was the Roman Alphabet and a law limiting all possible learning…and naturally the first Carta Magna was drafted in Latin.
I could add the ever changing name… like Franks coming from Franco their leader. Are they still Alans/Arians?

Two questions:

1. What "law" do you refer to? While there may have been local restrictions on learning, I thought that the main reason for the contraction of literary during the "dark ages" was the reduced standard of living. If it hadn't been for Irish monks copying manuscripts, we would have lost a bunch of classic literature. (In fact, we did. We just would have lost more.)

2. I am not aware of "Franco" as the name of an early leader of that tribe of Germans who became the Franks. Could you provide a source?

[recondicom]

LOL
There was the Roman Alphabet and a law limiting all possible learning…and naturally the first Carta Magna was drafted in Latin.
I could add the ever changing name… like Franks coming from Franco their leader. Are they still Alans/Arians?

Two questions:


2. I am not aware of "Franco" as the name of an early leader of that tribe of Germans who became the Franks. Could you provide a source?

Speculation. Perhaps you ascribed to the version that the term is coined from the Author in the title “Historia Francorum” hence, they were known with the name Franks.

[Ron Andrea]

I'd never read anything positive one way or the other. Some sources credit the Romans. Others say the name came from a weapon. (Like the Saex giving its name to the Saxona.) I've heard of tribes being named after their founder, but hadn't seen that reference for the Franks.

[recondicom]

LOL
There was the Roman Alphabet and a law limiting all possible learning…and naturally the first Carta Magna was drafted in Latin.
I could add the ever changing name… like Franks coming from Franco their leader. Are they still Alans/Arians?

Two questions:

1. What "law" do you refer to? While there may have been local restrictions on learning, I thought that the main reason for the contraction of literary during the "dark ages" was the reduced standard of living. If it hadn't been for Irish monks copying manuscripts, we would have lost a bunch of classic literature. (In fact, we did. We just would have lost more.)

“Tacitus was a little boy when Nero died and he lived far away in Gaul” …as to learning, the Romans were for the Romans and slaves did not learn. So first you are a Roman and then you are bilingual and then there is moving to Lex Salica (;. ‘Families’ (curious word) and the origin of the Middle Ages… and last names… like Otto is short for ottoman.

[Ron Andrea]

Huh? :?

[recondicom]

Huh? :?

Family from familia meaning servants.
Lex Salica. It was the law of the Franks.
Middle Ages= feudalism.

Papyrus versus paper. Franks obtained from the Barmakids/Sassonians the secret of paper. The Abassid Harum al-Rashid gave the Franks (Charlemagne VIII century) the translations done in the House of Wisdom of the Thousand and one Nights. It must be then that the surviving Epics like the Song of Roland and the Mio Cid, among others, were the gift of paper. Anyway, The restrictions of learning included burning whatever was written or changing it with no purpose. Was there any fire at the Vatican’s library?. Perhaps some surviving Jewish libraries?... X-Libris of… Deus sive Natura

[Ron Andrea]

Until the Inquisition, which was a thousand years later, I am not familiar with any "restrictions on learning."

Obviously, if writing is only being done on sheep or calf skins, some sort of rationing had to be done. But that's true whenever the demands exceeds the demand.

Do you have a reference or a citation for a restriction on learning other than economic necessity? That is, people too busy growing food and defending themselves to devote the time and energy necessary to learn to read.

[recondicom]

Until the Inquisition, which was a thousand years later, I am not familiar with any "restrictions on learning."

Obviously, if writing is only being done on sheep or calf skins, some sort of rationing had to be done. But that's true whenever the demands exceeds the demand.

Do you have a reference or a citation for a restriction on learning other than economic necessity? That is, people too busy growing food and defending themselves to devote the time and energy necessary to learn to read.

Perhaps something in between. It is true that the vernacular versions are exaggerated and perhaps politicized. Even the Lex Saxorum was written in Latin. Vernacular dictionaries made their appearance long afterwards. It was of not use or perhaps even possible to write legible vernacular. Paraphrasing your opinion : Learning to write and speak Latin but speaking another language in the daily chores may make it non desirable… unless you were a Jew of the priesthood. I recall reading that the capitularies included a survey of how many Franks knew how to write and read and how many books they owned.