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02-23-2005, 03:19 AM

Avete, 
 
Before and during a charge, the Russians would take up the cry ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…â€œHurrah! Hurrah pobieda!ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Â

Uwe Bahr · 02-23-2005, 09:28 AM

Spatha, 
 
I think, Maximus shouted several times 'ROMA VICTOR' when he lead the cavalry charge against the Germans and at the very moment when he realized that the battle was won. I have even read a few years ago a thread in another forum (especially about the film 'Gladiator') that had this 'Roma Victor' as a theme. IIRC they said that this 'Hollywood-battlecry' was not correct latin. 
 
Greets - Uwe

Catiline · 02-23-2005, 10:15 AM

Roma is feminine, hence it should have been Roma Victrix. Even then it would still be made up.

Carlton Bach · 02-23-2005, 11:36 AM

the Latin word for a battlecry is 'barritus' and the Romans understood its function well enough (at least by late antiquity). I doubt, though, that there was a regulation battlecry throughout the army. Units, armies under certain commanders, or in specific theatres most likely developed their own varieties. I dimly recall Italic allied troops under Marius using a reply to the battlecry of the Ambrones and I read somewhere (no substantiation I could remember) that "Io!" was used.

***Praefectusclassis*** · 02-23-2005, 12:06 PM

IIRC Appian relates a battle during the Civil Wars where the fight between two veteran legions was so impressive exactly because they fought in complete silence. Greets 
 
Jasper

02-23-2005, 02:21 PM

If I recall, the battle cry was the password for the day, given by the general before the battle. "Mars Ultor" seems to have been a well used battle cry --could have been used in the battle against Boudicca-- as well as "Sol Invictus" in later times and beginning in the Orient. 
In the christian empire the battle cry became christian of course. I remember reading something about that, probably in Ammianus. "Christus Victor?" 
In theory the charge was delivered in silence, the battle cry being shouted at the last moment before contact. In practice it was certainly a bit different.. 
The battle cry had also another use, that of identification. In one of the numerous battles of the numerous civil wars the Romans indulged into (don't remember which) the combatants, being dressed and armed alike reverted to asking each other the password in order to know whether they faced friend or foe. 
It's funny now, it wasn't then..

***Praefectusclassis*** · 02-23-2005, 03:25 PM

Quote:<hr>In one of the numerous battles of the numerous civil wars the Romans indulged into (don't remember which) the combatants, being dressed and armed alike reverted to asking each other the password in order to know whether they faced friend or foe.<hr> 
 
That last is interesting and goes against the theory of the different shields identifying different units! Source? Greets 
 
Jasper

L C Cinna · 02-23-2005, 04:02 PM

Well, I guess this sounds more like late Republican civil wars were shields and such don't seem to be so ornamented. 
 
As for the battlecry, Caesar's troops at Pharsalos used "Venus Victrix". 
 
During the republican period the Romans are said to have been rather loud while the Imperial army preferred silence. 
 
Does anyone know if they sang something while attacking like the Greeks did (Xenophon's "10.000" are singing the Paian all the time for example)

**Robert Vermaat** · 02-23-2005, 10:33 PM

Quote:<hr>the Latin word for a battlecry is 'barritus' <hr>Actually, that's not clear at all. 
Some say is was derived from Latin 'barrire', a word used to describe the trumpeting of elephants. 
 
Others say it was derived from the Germanic word for shields, 'bardi'. The 'barditus' could then resemble the barbarian Schildgesang (shield song) in which shields were used to amplify the sound. 
Proof is lacking either way, but since is seems to have been a wordless sound, I think it can be ruled out as a worded battle cry. 
Almost all mention of the barritus date to the 4th century, and the practise is considered as proof of barbarization of the Roman army. However, it quickly became a normal practise for the whole Roman army. 
 
Ammianus mentions it twice, once referring to it as 'called barritus by the barbarians' (quam gentilitate appellant barritus). Oddly enough, even when the Romans use the barritus, the opposing Goth use irregular shouting (clamores incondites) for their war cry. 
 
Vegetius mentioned that the barritus be raised when both lines engaged each other (calling it cowardly to use it from a distance), but surprisingly Maurikios warned against it, for it could cause panic and resulting chaos. 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert 
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]

**Robert Vermaat** · 02-23-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:<hr>If I recall, the battle cry was the password for the day<hr> 
Vegetius (III.5) mentions victoria, palma, virtus, Deus Nobiscum and triumphus imperatoris both as watchwords and signals in battle. 
Maurikios mentions Adiuta.. Deus as battle cry. Valete, 
Valerius/Robert 
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]

02-23-2005, 11:46 PM

Avete, 
 
How does "The Paian" go? 
Also, bear with me, is the meaning of these words? Please translate them for me. 
 
palma, 
virtus, 
Deus Nobiscum 
Adiuta.. Deus 
Mars Ultor 
 
Thanks! 
 
Valete, 
 
-Spatha Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=spatha190>Spatha190</A> at: 2/24/05 12:53 am

Dan Diffendale · 02-24-2005, 02:23 AM

A "paean" is not a single composition but a type of Greek song or hymn, of which there were very many examples. Paeans were originally hymns to Apollo but were later addressed to other gods as well, typically those connected with healing. Paeans were also sung by the Greeks in combat, but not, it seems, originally or exclusively. 
 
 
victoria - victory 
palma - a palm (e.g. of victory) 
virtus - virtue, manliness 
Deus nobiscum - God with us, may (G/g)od be with us 
Adiuta... deus - God help (us)! 
Mars Ultor - Mars the Avenger 
triumphus imperatoris - the general's/emperor's triumph

02-24-2005, 02:02 PM

According to the greek tragedist Aeschylus, who fought at Marathon: 
"On, sons of the Hellenes! Fight for the freedom of your country! Fight for the freedom of your children and of your wives, for the gods of your fathers and for the sepulchers of your ancestors! All are now staked upon the strife!" 
BTW/ Miltiade's helmet which he wore at Marathon can still be admired at the museum at Olympia, bearing the inscription: "Miltiades dedicated this to Zeus". Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 2/24/05 3:06 pm

02-25-2005, 06:56 AM

Re The Greek Paian or Paean 
 
There are a few surviving parts of Paeans in the corpus of the poet Pindar (Born 518 B.C.). The Paean itself is often a rather long poem. As its name implies, it is a sacred hym. 
 
One part of a Paean that would be most likely sung in a battle is a simple refrain that sounds something like, "Io Paian" (Pindar Paean 2) in some instances, "ie ie, o ie Paian" (Pindar Paean 4) or, "ie iete, nun, metra paionon iete neoi" (Pindar, Paean 6, 120 - 121). It actually looks better in the Greek, my apologies to the Greek scholars for that rendering. 
 
Translations? Shout Paian! (Paean 2) Shout shout, oh shout Paian! (Paean 4) "Shout, shout now in the Paian style, shout young men!" I think the power as a war cry would be in the alliterative shouting of the "I" sound. Imagine facing a phalanx of Greek hoplites shouting what would sound like, "I, I, I Paian" as they crfushed into you! 
 
Kevin 
 
Do you have a reference for the Paian from Xenophon?

mcbishop · 02-25-2005, 09:22 AM

Imagine facing a phalanx of Greek hoplites shouting what would sound like, "I, I, I Paian" as they crfushed into you! 
 
I am now in fact haunted by an image of a bunch of legionaries (Coolus helmets aslant) jabbing their pinkies and index fingers at me shouting 'Yo! Yo! Yo!'* in what I assume we would have to call the Barritus Rap. Just put it down to exhaustion... 
 
*The 'I' in Io is of course consonantal in Latin so would have sounded something like 'Y' to us. 
 
Mike Bishop

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